Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 00:39:26 -0500
Reply-To: Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Subject: Re: Freeze-12 and other A/C supplies
In-Reply-To: <006401cb10fe$dc736a00$955a3e00$@com>
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Robert,
You make an excellent argument for properly labeling any retrofit. The standard exists so that technician can see what has been put into the system and take proper precautions when servicing the vehicle.
And regarding the 1 PSI regulator, a leak is a leak regardless of the pressure. It's been many years ago but two of my friends were seriously injured from a propane explosion in their Airstream. It was night and they were sleeping when things went south.
Tom
www.stir-plate.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of Robert Fisher
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 12:02 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Freeze-12 and other A/C supplies
The propane in your passenger cabin is on the downside of a 1 psi regulator (iirc), no? And the gas is outside in a tank made to hold it. There are other considerations as well; I read some time back that a Nat'l professional organization representing automotive A/C service techs was suing the manufacturers of hydrocarbon "refrigerants" because of all of their members (apparently a considerable number) that had been injured trying to service systems that had been filled with explosive gases unbeknownst to them.
I think it's like the point made in the seat belt discussion; the decisions we make don't just affect us but can have wide-ranging unintended consequences for lots of other ppl.
In regards to A/C in a Vanagon, probably the best solution would be to get an R134a compatible compressor and barrier hoses and proceed normally. The trade-off there is limited to money, basically.
Cya,
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Hargrave [mailto:thargrav@hiwaay.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 1:40 PM
To: 'Robert Fisher'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: RE: Freeze-12 and other A/C supplies
I look at it this way.
All of these products are far less explosive than the propane plumbed in to power your stove & heater. They are also far less explosive than the gasoline sloshing around in your gas tank!
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of Robert Fisher
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 3:10 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Freeze-12 and other A/C supplies
--snip--
turns out that Freeze 12 seems not to have propane or other flammable component, but there are good reasons that regulatory agents rule against a product and that manufacturers recommend that things be done in a certain way.
--snip--
Freeze-12 doesn't have propane but according to the MSDS the R142b component is "extremely flammable" and breaks down into some pretty nasty gases due to "thermal decomposition".
Freeze-12 is on the EPA's "acceptable subject to use" list, as well as some others that have less than 5% isobutane. Perhaps they feel that at level the explosive potential is low enough to be acceptable? I haven't seen where it was illegal in some individual states; does anybody have a link to that?
I guess you picks yer poisons...
Cya,
Robert