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Date:         Fri, 25 Jun 2010 21:32:31 -0700
Reply-To:     Paul <wognacious@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Paul <wognacious@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Brake question......
Comments: To: Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To:  <AANLkTim3LjNCHo3yVZ98hNmJUyhm3I8GLO77sa8Y66y2@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Thanks for all the info and since we're on the subject my front brakes are starting to squeal. The pads are still pretty thick and I'm pretty sure it's gotta be a build up of dust from the pads. Am I right? or at least on the right track? If so what can be done to prevent it from doing it? I hate to give VW's and/or Vanagons a bad name by having the dreaded squealing brakes as I approach a stop sign or light. I hate the way some people will look at you when you slide up beside them at an intersection and they see that you're in a VW of some type. I think it's jealousy. Or ignorance or a combination of the two.

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:49 PM, Jake de Villiers < crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> wrote:

> That's funny! > > I've never used test strips on the fluid. I change it when I get the > vehicle so I know where we are, then flush as necessary. > > Its pretty easy to tell icky fluid from one push on the pedal with the > bleeder open. > > Jake > > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:38 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans < > scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: > > > hey .. > > I knew that would bring out some accurate details. ..thanks . > > > > if 3.7 % is 'wet' ... > > what is 60 % water content called ? > > super wet or hyper wet ? > > :-) > > > > shop to customer ...'you need your water/brake fluid mixture richened up > > some with brake fluid, it's closer to 70/30 water-to-brake fluid right > now. > > We should get it down to at least only 3.7 % water." > > > > ever use those 'litmus paper' strips to test brake fluid condition ? > > There are also electronic devices that will test brake fluid condition > now > > I think. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> > > *To:* Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> > > *Cc:* vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com > > *Sent:* Friday, June 25, 2010 8:08 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Brake question...... > > > > Whoa up cowboy! > > > > The 'wet' boiling point of Dot 3 is 284 F and the 'dry' boiling point is > > 401 F. > > > > The wet boiling point of Dot 4 is 311 F and the dry boiling point is 446 > F. > > > > 'Dry brake fluid is fresh fluid and 'wet' fluid is defined as having a > > water content of 3.7% by volume. > > > > > > Jake > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 2:13 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans < > > scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: > > > >> I was surprised how low the boiling point of brake fluid is. > >> Dot 3 is only 273F I think, > >> which isn't that far above the boiling point of water , as a handy > >> reference. > >> > >> Vanagons use Dot 4 Brake Fluid of course... > >> forget what the boiling point of that is, but it's somewhat higher .. > >> and it's not anything like 400 degrees I don't think. > >> > >> shoot the temps of front rotors sometime after heavy brake use ....they > >> can get way up there. > >> > >> and yes, it's mandatory to change brake fluid every two years on all > cars. > >> When it's old and thin and black ... > >> it's probably 70 % water I bet. > >> > >> 'just sitting'......... brake fluid absorbs moisture out of the air. It > >> attracts water practically. > >> In a high humidity environment, it should be changed once a year. > >> You may notice some Owner's Manuals say 'add brake fluid from a sealed > >> container.' > >> > >> and that is a great idea on the blue and gold fluids ..so you can tell > >> when the old is out and new is in. > >> 'usually' products made for racing might be better at racing > applications > >> than for daily and regular road use, so check on that I'd say. > >> > >> I just believe in a high quality Dot 4 brake fluid, and change it twice > a > >> year, including clutch hydraulics. > >> > >> Scott > >> www.turbovans.com > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Don Hanson > >> To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans > >> Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com > >> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 1:50 PM > >> Subject: Re: Brake question...... > >> > >> > >> Right on, Scott. > >> > >> A loaded Westie, maybe an automatic without much engine braking, > going > >> down a long steep grade...that is "Brake Fade...waiting to happen" if > you > >> apply the brake the whole time to control your downhill speed. If you > apply > >> continuous braking all the way down a long hill, the pads and rotors get > >> real hot and transmit that heat into the caliper and through that to the > >> fluid. Real hot brake pads are also less effective, requiring more > braking > >> as the heat builds, so you have to push harder, creating even more > heat...a > >> vicious cycle.. > >> > >> The most effective way to descend in a heavy vehicle with small brakes > >> is to apply them firmly and slow the vehicle below it's 'perfect speed', > >> then get off the brakes and let it build back up to speed (allowing the > >> brakes to cool off some) Watch the truckers go downhill. > >> > >> Brake fade is mostly caused by the moisture in your brake fluid > turning > >> to steam. Brake fluid has a very very high boiling point but it also > loves > >> moisture...So over time your brake fluid will absorb a small amount of > >> moisture...a drop or two in the whole vehicle's brake system is all it > takes > >> to create a lot of steam....Water expands and creates a lot of steam > which > >> is 'compressable' unlike brake fluid...So at 212f...which is nothing > when > >> you are talking brake temps...your brake system can boil the moisture in > old > >> stale brake fluid and give you the classic "Soft Pedal" of brake > >> fade....You push and push harder but all you are doing is compressing > the > >> steam that's been created by Hot Brakes... > >> > >> Changing brake fluid regularly is good. Once you experience Brake > >> Fade...you will become a believer...if you live. > >> In my road racing car I changed brake fluid every race weekend, at > least. > >> Sometimes I would change between sessions , if I'd really cooked the > >> brakes. I use ATE Super Blue and ATE Gold, alternating the two so I can > see > >> when I get Fresh new fluid out of my bleeder valves..Cheap insurance and > not > >> difficult with a Power Bleeder set up. > >> Don Hanson > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans < > >> scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: > >> > >> hi. > >> no , that is not classic brake fad. > >> > >> Brake fad is when you have decent pedal, but brake pads and calipers > >> have > >> gotten so hot from continued or hard downhill use, that the brake > fluid > >> starts to boil... > >> then you have essentially no brakes, are barely any. > >> > >> btw ... > >> continued light use ..or steady light use, as in a long decent is not > >> the > >> right thing to do at all. > >> that just builds up heat. > >> Instead...use the brakes hard enough to drop some speed, then don't > use > >> them ... > >> given them some cooling time...then use again a little harder, then > let > >> cool > >> etc... > >> > >> > >> And brake in new pads properly too. Another subject. > >> Scott > >> www.turbovans.com > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Paul" <wognacious@GMAIL.COM> > >> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> > >> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:54 PM > >> Subject: Brake question...... > >> > >> > >> > >> Is this what I've heard described as "brake fade?" I'll be going > down > >> a > >> hill > >> and the pedal feels normal, if there is such a thing, and once in a > >> while > >> it > >> feels like the pedal all of a sudden will go right down to the > floor > >> board. > >> I > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Jake > > > > 1984 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX 'The Grey Van' > > 1986 Westy Weekender/2.5 SOHC Suby 'Dixie' > > > > Crescent Beach, BC > > > > www.thebassspa.com > > www.crescentbeachguitar.com > > http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27 > > > > > > > -- > Jake > > 1984 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX 'The Grey Van' > 1986 Westy Weekender/2.5 SOHC Suby 'Dixie' > > Crescent Beach, BC > > www.thebassspa.com > www.crescentbeachguitar.com > http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27 >


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