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Date:         Thu, 24 Jun 2010 21:55:50 -0700
Reply-To:     "M. Jade" <tinho2010@YAHOO.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         "M. Jade" <tinho2010@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Why my rear axle nuts got loose
In-Reply-To:  <AANLkTimjxyUqfs-fnRZ8dFzkl9Yx0UUZNcMH8YDC39WR@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Thanks again to everyone's suggestions to the axle noise issue of my Vanagon. I understand that it is a complete axle overhaul job now. I don't think I am equipped to do it myself. I will give a visit to my mechanic that I trust soon. The bearings and seals seem to be within $100 or so. I am sure it will be a couple of hours of labor. It's not bad at all considering it's not a light job that I can do without a lot of sweating. I might take this opportunity to have a complete brake job done as well.

Thanks again for all the great tips.

MJ

--- On Thu, 6/24/10, Fillmore West <fillmorewst@GMAIL.COM> wrote:

From: Fillmore West <fillmorewst@GMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Why my rear axle nuts got loose To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Date: Thursday, June 24, 2010, 9:59 AM

OOPS!   I guess the link would help !

http://www.flickr.com/photos/51453442@N06/

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Fillmore West <fillmorewst@gmail.com>wrote:

> Just went through all of this > Not too bad of a job > even for an amateur like myself. > Here's the Tool I use to torque the Axle Nut. > I stand out 2 ft from center. > Now you know my weight !!!  ;o) > > PS: List: Thanks for all of your help > with the Auto Trans Final Drive oil change! > In the end I just took the pan off. > (wanted to take a look in there, and to see if there was > a layer of crud on the bottom of the pan. There wasnt ) > > But,  the ATF looked like brown gravy! > Doubt it had Ever been changed! > (Looked clean on the dip stick? ) > So folks; change it! :o) > > > On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 4:21 AM, Frank Condelli <RAlanen@aol.com> wrote: > >> In a message dated 24/06/2010 12:01:53 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM writes: >> >>        MJ. the bearings are not  expensive.  See here > _Vanagon New >> Parts_ (http://frankcondelli.com/sales.htm)  under "Wheel  Bearings" >> heading. >> The rear wheel bearings can only be changed by removing  the hub bearing >> carrier.  The bearings must be pressed out the side where  the CV is >> bolted to >> the stub axle, so you had better replace them both and make  sure the >> spacer >> is of the correct length listed on my website I just mentioned  to you. >> Also, read the following I wrote for the LiMBO newsleter some time  ago : >> >> >> "Folks, as a long time Vanagon shop mechanic, I need to comment on the >> article in the last issue of The Transporter I received yesterday, about: >>  "R&R >> The Rear Wheel Bearing Assembly....on page 7.  There is  incorrect >> information given in that article which could lead to problems and >>  possibly an >> accident.  First and foremost the torque spec on the rear axle  nut is 360 >> ft. >> lbs. not 253 ft. lbs. as stated in the article.  See page  42.4 in the >> Vanagon Bentley workshop manual.  Improper torque on this nut  can lead to >> problems.  Secondly, replacing worn bearings with used bearings  is not >> mechanically sound advice.  Especially since the rear wheel bearings  and >> seals are >> inexpensive items.  The only "special" tool needed to change  the bearings >> in >> that hub is a pair of snap ring pliers. Removing  the bearings from the >> hub >> can be easily done with a drift and  hammer.  They are not pressed in >> requiring any special press or bearing  tool.  Torqueing of the axle nut >> can be >> done with the proper torque wrench  or bring the vehicle to a truck repair >> shop, or use the proper socket  with breaker bar with an pipe extension. >> Calculate your weight  and then stand on the end of the extension bar the >> proper >> distance from the  centre of the axle to produce 360 ft' lbs. of torque. >> Vehicle on its  wheels, on the ground, rear hand brake fully engaged and >> wheel >> being torqued  blocked. Now, more to the problem, replacing the bearings >> without checking  the spacer, hub, splines and nut for wear can also lead >> to >> more problems.   The rear bearings are in a fixed length environment.  The >> distance is  governed by the width of the bearing races, the spacer and >> the >> hub.  If any  of these are worn then the distance is incorrect and >> tightening >> the nut will not  make it better.  The nut will come to the end of its >> threads on the spline  and can certainly be torqued to spec and still not >> apply >> the proper pre-load on  the new bearings due to spacer, hub and or nut >> faces >> being worn.   Trust me I have seen all these scenarios in my shop.  The >> spacer and  hub must be measured against the length of a new one.  The >> Bentley >> manual does not state these dimensions.  I have measured new spacers and >> they are 42.8 mm.  I have documented that measurement on my _sales >> webpage_ >> (http://www.frankcondelli.com/sales.htm)  where the  listing for that >> spacer >> resides.  The hub width, I do not know as I have  not had the opportunity >> to >> have a new hub pass before me for measurement.   However, if the two end >> faces of the hub were showing signs of wear I would be  suspicious.  Also, >> the >> face of the nut is important to be in good  condition.  Any reason to >> suspect >> it would be reason enough to replace it  with a new one.  One last point >> is >> to check the splines in the hub and on  the axle for wear.  If the >> bearings >> were run loose for any considerable  time, then the hub may certainly have >> worn the splines and then the axle and hub  should be replaced.  To avoid >> all of the problems you may see with this  issue it is highly advisable to >> check the rear wheel bearings at least once a  year and repack them with >> grease.  Whenever I find more than 1/4" movement  when trying to rock the >> rear >> wheel with the van elevated off the ground and hand  brake off, I first >> loosen >> and re-torque the axle nut, then if the 1/4" movement  is still there it's >> time to look into renewing the rear wheel bearings and check  the spacer, >> hub >> and nut.  I hope this helps someone before they follow  the misinformation >> and cause more problems than need  be. >> >> >> >> >>>>>The outer wheel bearings are fairly  inexpensive. So I think I am >> going to h= >> ave them replaced. I am going to  assume that the inner wheel bearings >> are= >> =A0 still OK.=A0 It would be a  much bigger job to replace them.=A0 Am I >> mak= >> ing a mistake=A0 by this  assumption?=A0 =20<<<<< >> >> >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Frank  Condelli >> Almonte, Ontario, Canada >> '87 Westy & Lionel Trains (_Collection for sale_ >> (http://frankcondelli.com/trainsal.htm) ) >> _Frank Condelli &  Associates_ (http://frankcondelli.com/busindex.html) >>  - >> Vanagon/Vanagon Westfalia Service in the Ottawa Valley >> _Vanagon Stainless Steel Exhaust  Systems_ >> (http://frankcondelli.com/exhaust.htm) >> _BusFusion_ (http://www.busfusion.com/)  a VW Camper  camping event, >> Almonte, ON, June 10 ~ 13,  2010 >> > >


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