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Date:         Fri, 25 Jun 2010 21:43:13 -0700
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Brake question......
Comments: To: Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=original

it's a sales tool really. if it says the bf is due ... you use it to show to the customer. I don't use them anymore myself. all us vanagon savvy types on here know when to change the bf without even thinking about it.

and yeah, I get a dead vanagon ...that I'll fix up to sell, first thing I do is change the bf.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jake de Villiers" <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 8:49 PM Subject: Re: Brake question......

> That's funny! > > I've never used test strips on the fluid. I change it when I get the > vehicle so I know where we are, then flush as necessary. > > Its pretty easy to tell icky fluid from one push on the pedal with the > bleeder open. > > Jake > > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:38 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans < > scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: > >> hey .. >> I knew that would bring out some accurate details. ..thanks . >> >> if 3.7 % is 'wet' ... >> what is 60 % water content called ? >> super wet or hyper wet ? >> :-) >> >> shop to customer ...'you need your water/brake fluid mixture richened up >> some with brake fluid, it's closer to 70/30 water-to-brake fluid right >> now. >> We should get it down to at least only 3.7 % water." >> >> ever use those 'litmus paper' strips to test brake fluid condition ? >> There are also electronic devices that will test brake fluid condition >> now >> I think. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> >> *To:* Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> >> *Cc:* vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com >> *Sent:* Friday, June 25, 2010 8:08 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Brake question...... >> >> Whoa up cowboy! >> >> The 'wet' boiling point of Dot 3 is 284 F and the 'dry' boiling point is >> 401 F. >> >> The wet boiling point of Dot 4 is 311 F and the dry boiling point is 446 >> F. >> >> 'Dry brake fluid is fresh fluid and 'wet' fluid is defined as having a >> water content of 3.7% by volume. >> >> >> Jake >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 2:13 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans < >> scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: >> >>> I was surprised how low the boiling point of brake fluid is. >>> Dot 3 is only 273F I think, >>> which isn't that far above the boiling point of water , as a handy >>> reference. >>> >>> Vanagons use Dot 4 Brake Fluid of course... >>> forget what the boiling point of that is, but it's somewhat higher .. >>> and it's not anything like 400 degrees I don't think. >>> >>> shoot the temps of front rotors sometime after heavy brake use ....they >>> can get way up there. >>> >>> and yes, it's mandatory to change brake fluid every two years on all >>> cars. >>> When it's old and thin and black ... >>> it's probably 70 % water I bet. >>> >>> 'just sitting'......... brake fluid absorbs moisture out of the air. It >>> attracts water practically. >>> In a high humidity environment, it should be changed once a year. >>> You may notice some Owner's Manuals say 'add brake fluid from a sealed >>> container.' >>> >>> and that is a great idea on the blue and gold fluids ..so you can tell >>> when the old is out and new is in. >>> 'usually' products made for racing might be better at racing >>> applications >>> than for daily and regular road use, so check on that I'd say. >>> >>> I just believe in a high quality Dot 4 brake fluid, and change it twice >>> a >>> year, including clutch hydraulics. >>> >>> Scott >>> www.turbovans.com >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Don Hanson >>> To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans >>> Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com >>> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 1:50 PM >>> Subject: Re: Brake question...... >>> >>> >>> Right on, Scott. >>> >>> A loaded Westie, maybe an automatic without much engine braking, >>> going >>> down a long steep grade...that is "Brake Fade...waiting to happen" if >>> you >>> apply the brake the whole time to control your downhill speed. If you >>> apply >>> continuous braking all the way down a long hill, the pads and rotors get >>> real hot and transmit that heat into the caliper and through that to the >>> fluid. Real hot brake pads are also less effective, requiring more >>> braking >>> as the heat builds, so you have to push harder, creating even more >>> heat...a >>> vicious cycle.. >>> >>> The most effective way to descend in a heavy vehicle with small brakes >>> is to apply them firmly and slow the vehicle below it's 'perfect speed', >>> then get off the brakes and let it build back up to speed (allowing the >>> brakes to cool off some) Watch the truckers go downhill. >>> >>> Brake fade is mostly caused by the moisture in your brake fluid >>> turning >>> to steam. Brake fluid has a very very high boiling point but it also >>> loves >>> moisture...So over time your brake fluid will absorb a small amount of >>> moisture...a drop or two in the whole vehicle's brake system is all it >>> takes >>> to create a lot of steam....Water expands and creates a lot of steam >>> which >>> is 'compressable' unlike brake fluid...So at 212f...which is nothing >>> when >>> you are talking brake temps...your brake system can boil the moisture in >>> old >>> stale brake fluid and give you the classic "Soft Pedal" of brake >>> fade....You push and push harder but all you are doing is compressing >>> the >>> steam that's been created by Hot Brakes... >>> >>> Changing brake fluid regularly is good. Once you experience Brake >>> Fade...you will become a believer...if you live. >>> In my road racing car I changed brake fluid every race weekend, at >>> least. >>> Sometimes I would change between sessions , if I'd really cooked the >>> brakes. I use ATE Super Blue and ATE Gold, alternating the two so I can >>> see >>> when I get Fresh new fluid out of my bleeder valves..Cheap insurance and >>> not >>> difficult with a Power Bleeder set up. >>> Don Hanson >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans < >>> scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: >>> >>> hi. >>> no , that is not classic brake fad. >>> >>> Brake fad is when you have decent pedal, but brake pads and calipers >>> have >>> gotten so hot from continued or hard downhill use, that the brake >>> fluid >>> starts to boil... >>> then you have essentially no brakes, are barely any. >>> >>> btw ... >>> continued light use ..or steady light use, as in a long decent is not >>> the >>> right thing to do at all. >>> that just builds up heat. >>> Instead...use the brakes hard enough to drop some speed, then don't >>> use >>> them ... >>> given them some cooling time...then use again a little harder, then >>> let >>> cool >>> etc... >>> >>> >>> And brake in new pads properly too. Another subject. >>> Scott >>> www.turbovans.com >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Paul" <wognacious@GMAIL.COM> >>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:54 PM >>> Subject: Brake question...... >>> >>> >>> >>> Is this what I've heard described as "brake fade?" I'll be going >>> down >>> a >>> hill >>> and the pedal feels normal, if there is such a thing, and once in a >>> while >>> it >>> feels like the pedal all of a sudden will go right down to the >>> floor >>> board. >>> I >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jake >> >> 1984 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX 'The Grey Van' >> 1986 Westy Weekender/2.5 SOHC Suby 'Dixie' >> >> Crescent Beach, BC >> >> www.thebassspa.com >> www.crescentbeachguitar.com >> http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27 >> >> > > > -- > Jake > > 1984 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX 'The Grey Van' > 1986 Westy Weekender/2.5 SOHC Suby 'Dixie' > > Crescent Beach, BC > > www.thebassspa.com > www.crescentbeachguitar.com > http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27


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