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Date:         Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:37:39 -0700
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Oil leak since rebuilt 2.1l installed
Comments: To: greg@pottsfamily.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=original

I Gregg, I'm usually the one that 'doesn't get it' when people are vague about what they are talking about. lol.

Ry wrote : "Pretty much since the beginning there has been a slow oil leak from the rear of the engine. I assume it's the rear main seal(what else is back there?"

so sure, I know about the 'rear is rear', ' front is front' thing.. that started with John Muir's Complete Idiot book ...

but in this case ...it was clear...Ry did say 'rear main seal' ..and even if we are talking in John Muir speak.. where the 'front' is toward the transmission .. that seal there at the flywheel is just called the Rear Main Seal....... no way around that. RMS for short.

I have not seen many leaking 'front seals' on waterboxer engines.. which I prefer to call 'crankshaft pulley oil seal' ....more clear that way what is being talked about. 'front seal' is a little vauge and ambiguous talking about a WBXR engine.

but hey ..I see SO MUCH sloppy use of english ... I just have to try to think about what they probably 'actually mean' and not pay too much attention to what they actually 'say.' It's a crisis, in my mind. Have seen just horrible word usage that is unclear from the head of Social Security in a letter, at Umpqua Band on their statements and at the ATM, and at my endodontist.... so more and more.... it's not go by what they said, but more go by what I can figure out they probably mean. And the minimal effort that some people put into a repsonse to a post ..don't even get me started ! :-)

'People' are deffenitely getting stupider and sloppier about Engish usuage these days. . I just try to accept it. but I knew what Ry was talking about here.

oh, sorry ...yes, on the cam plug. Got about 8 waterboxer engines to look at here... It's a converted air-cooled design ..same old cam gally plug is there. yeah, I thought about that part - have seldom seen a problem with one. back in the air-cooled days we used to say 'rear main seal, unless it's a cracked case'............ waterboxers don't do that though. I have never seen a cam plug pop out myself. maybe that was from cheap cam plugs ....there's a groove in the case, and corrsponding ridge on the sheet metal plug.....it 'sure should' be well stuck in there ...and properly sealed.

well, if cam seal plugs are popping out with cold oil at high rpm's ... people would say 'Volkswagens are junk !' ..

it would have to be either the lousier parts we get these days or workmanship issues.

or maybe stuck oil pressure relief valve if oil pressure is a factor.

heck, I was even going to ask 'which engine' ...not sure if he said, but he did. 2.1

'They're just Volkswagens.' ... in other words ... they are not build like a Mercedes ( the older overbuilt ones ) ...they're just volkswagons. but we love 'em !~ Scott www.turbovans.com

----- Original Message ----- From: <greg@pottsfamily.ca> To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> Cc: <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Oil leak since rebuilt 2.1l installed

> Hi Scott, > > Exactly how is it clear which end of the engine he was talking about? The > transmission wasn't mentioned in the original post. The "rear seal" was > mentioned, but there is a seal at BOTH ends of the engine, and I've seen > both ends leak on various T4 aircooled engines so I wouldn't rule that out > on a WBX. YMMV. > > Another thought: Does the WBX have the cam gallery plugs in it that the T4 > aircooled case has? I've seen those leak too... Usually once that starts > it's not long before they pop out and gush a couple quarts on the road. > Happens around here in the fall as people start engines up with cold, > thick oil in them at a fast idle. Something else to check on if the engine > or transmission is coming out anyhow. > > Happy Trails, > > Greg Potts > www.pottsfamily.ca > WWW.BUSESOFTHECORN.CA <--- NEW .CA DOMAIN!!! > 1987 Wolfsburg Weekender hardtop Vanagon > 1973 Westfakia "Bob the Tomato" > > >> hi, >> it was clear you were talking about the engine-transmission junction >> area. >> >> yeah, there shouldn't be a drop there with a fresh engine. >> and if you're sure it's engine oil.. .. Just because trans is rebuilt >> that >> doesn't mean 'for sure' it can't leak some there . >> In my brain I never think 'oh that's new, can't be that' .. >> I think the opposite ...that was just worked on ....the problem could be >> there . >> I always go for the most recent work when there's an issue ...I often >> find >> 'the issue' there. >> >> things that come to mind if it's engine oil - >> rear main oil seal of course. >> anything to do with end play of the crankshaft and that whole end-play >> shim/rear main seal area. >> >> oh ...here's one..........I've seen this one ...no lock-tite on the >> flywheel >> bolts ....oil will gradually migrate up the threads of the flywheel bolts >> if >> there is not a sealant or lock-tite on the bolt threads. They should >> always >> bet lock-tited in of course. >> there's an o-ring on the crankshaft side of the flywheel...that's gotta >> be >> there. >> >> anything to do with crankcase pressure and not venting/relieving pressure >> properly. >> Waterboxers seldom have that problem ...but the oil tower ...there are >> moving parts in there... >> spring and some other part ...if that was all clogged up , could be a >> factor. >> >> doubt it's the oil itself, but consider that....brand, grade, and >> viscosity. >> >> but if the engine is new ... >> it sure shouldn't do that. If it did that in a year say ...mabye ok, >> but new.....shouldn't be an oil drop there. >> it should be either ... a seal issue, or what the seal seals against >> .....or >> breather/crankcase pressure issue. ...somewhere in there. Even excessive >> main bearing oil clearnce could cause it. Or cheap rear main seal. The >> good >> ones are all red, or have a red lip where they actually do the sealing >> ...the all black ones are not so hot, but they should work find for a >> while >> . >> If it was mine, I'd be taking the trans or engine out to look at things >> very carefully, much as one hates to do that over one small drop. >> >> Scott >> www.turbovans.com >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ry" <rylincoln@GMAIL.COM> >> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 11:59 AM >> Subject: Re: Oil leak since rebuilt 2.1l installed >> >> >>> when i say rear of engine i mean where it mates up with the >>> transmission, >>> oil pump is on the "front" of the engine. sorry for the confusion, I >>> still >>> think of the engine seperate from the van so i don't get confused on >>> front >>> and rear designation. >>> >>> Definitely not transmission oil, i have a rebuilt trans too, replaced at >>> same time as engine. >>> >>> No oil on the engine lid, only on the bottom of the engine where >>> transmission and engine meet at the center of the case. >>> >>> I'm not calling out the rebuilder on the list, that would be poor form, >>> but >>> I didn't rebuild it, was professional rebuild. >>> >>> this is the area where it drips once or twice when stopped. >>> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3L4SAvf39FK2iLzL_frNBw?feat=directlink >>> >>> -Ry >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans < >>> scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: >>> >>>> 'carry on' ...lol. >>>> >>>> make sure it's not transmission oil ...could be. >>>> >>>> if it is engine oil... >>>> no, should not have a slow leak or any drips there. >>>> I'd say the only acceptable level of leak there would be one drop of >>>> oil >>>> sitting on the engine ..at the most ...and no drops on the ground ... >>>> shouldn't have that with a new engine. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ry" <rylincoln@GMAIL.COM> >>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:59 AM >>>> Subject: Oil leak since rebuilt 2.1l installed >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> So, I'm not terribly worried about this but am interested in the >>>> opinions >>>>> of >>>>> the hive mind here. I installed a rebuilt 2.1l engine ~3,500 miles >>>>> ago. >>>>> Pretty much since the beginning there has been a slow oil leak from >>>>> the >>>>> rear >>>>> of the engine. I assume it's the rear main seal(what else is back >>>>> there? >>>>> It's not enough to warrant needing to add oil between oil change >>>>> intervals, >>>>> there are maybe 1 or 2 drops of oil on the ground when parked for >>>>> several >>>>> hours. >>>>> >>>>> Oh no woah as me, I know.... this is NOT a major problem, but I sure >>>>> would >>>>> like to have NO oil leaks, is this unreasonable? Do many people have >>>>> little >>>>> leaks they just ignore? >>>>> >>>>> I reckon I'll just live with it for now. I have an oil pressure gauge >>>>> and >>>>> oil temp gauge along with an external oil cooler so I should get >>>>> warned >>>>> quickly of any lubrication troubles. >>>>> >>>>> carry on, >>>>> -Ry >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> > > >


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