Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 12:18:56 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: My AT Rebuild
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Age of car is 'no excuse' in my book.
I don't care what somebody is working on, if they take on the project ...
they owe the customer and the project their best work, period.
even to this degree...supposing I let myself get talked into a job by a
person I don't like...
given that my reputation out in the world is important .....if for no other
reason, I owe that job my best shot.
Same if I agree to work on say, a Cadillac that I just hate working
on...once I commit ...
that means it gets my best shot, period.
and 'all shops' should be turning down some work now and then...because
some jobs are just plane bad to be involved with ....either the car, or the
customer or both ....
main thing though is once they say 'yes we will work on your van' ....
they should really give it their very best shot , even if they have to study
up on how to fix it or whatever.
There never is any viable excuse for not doing the best they know how.
and ...you know, greasy fingerprints on a headliner say ..doesn't matter if
it's a 25 year old vanagon or 1992 Framousmobile ....it's about committment
to results...
which obviosly, many people are not aware of ...no concept of what S E R V I
C E is ..
and I don't mean servicing the car, I mean serving the client.
anway ...
great to read Daryl's thinking on the seals and accumulator piston.
re valve body ...
I had one out of a vanagon auto trans a while back. It was about 2 years on
a rebuild and it just will not shift into 3rd. I couldn't see anything
obviously blocked or jammed in the va;vee body ..
but I did learn that they can be tricky......Talking to german transaxle in
Bend...they told me they sell gone-through valve bodies...and that they have
a dyno to test vavle bodies on.
And reading in Bentley ...where they tell you how to adjust spring
pressures or whatever....made me think that's a pretty demanding area, and
has to be really right, and onoe can probaly not just clean one and slop it
back on or whatever.
it not shifting back up to 3rd after letting of gas in 2nd at 45 mph, sure
does not sound right to me.
On thing that affects shift points I believe,
is length of rod from trans side lever to throttle body on engine ..
just a thought there. On vanagons I don't usually have to change that.
whenever I see bad work on the outside...I can only wonder about what bad
work might have been done on the inside.
and I have seen where the bad work on the outside, exactly reflected the
bad work on the inside.
I think you would have been miles ahead to either pull the trans yourself,
or have someone pull it, and send it 'only' to a trans shop expeienced with
vanagon automatics .........Daryl or German Transaxle.
more and more ....you know, vanagons can be tricky sometimes ...like say
fuel injection ...
and more and more.....they should be worked on by people that are familiar
with them, or at the very least, someone that is Enthusastic about working
on them. They're great vehicles.
and I will always say they take special care and understanding.
and how sloppy many shops are ...tire stores included..
I just simply can not understand how they justify in the back of their minds
doing such crap work.
just carelessness too. Guy hired me to check out a 23,000 dollar Eurovan in
Ashland he was thinking of buying. I ask about the service on it .....'oh
yeah, just had it serviced at the VW dealer, she's ready to go on a trip
etc." ...
I go to check the engine oil...
the VW dealer tech put the plastic engine cover on over the dipstick,
instead of installing it so the dipstick fits through the hole in it that
the dipstick is suppossed to stick through ...and you couldn't check the
oil.
a 12 year old that cares wouldn't make that simple mistake.
man, I hope that trans thing works out ...but given what I see in terms of
sloppy work all the time ...
I sure wonder about your trans job.
btw...given how easily and horribly vanagon underparts rust and
corrode........I think that transmission shops should either paint and treat
all the outsides of their rebuilt transmissions ..
or at least offer to the customer 'For X dollars extra we will treat and
paint the steel output flanges and other metal and aluminum parts on the
outside of the trans to protect it from corrosion."
I am seeing brand new rebuilt transmissions with plain metal plates on the
outsdie of them, still rusty, and not treated or painted against corrosion
in any way ..
and the customers don't know ...they depend on the rebuider experts for
guidance there, or rust and corrosion prevention treatments.
a huge portion of the vanagon repair and restoration I do is all about
corrosion ...
treating and stopping corrosion in many systems.....
they're getting old. Like an aircraft , they would last nearly
indeffenitely if they were just treated for corrosion here and there, and
many things well lubed. Like.........for example, I can not do any tune up
work, or change a transmission without also lubing the throttle body on the
engine, and the cable barrel clamp where it pivots in the lever.....almost
all of those that I see have not been lubed since the factory almost ...
my point is ...whatever people touch or work on ....usually many associated
areas need simple attention ...simple attention to detail.....and often just
about lubrication, and treating/preventing rust and corrosion.
"It's not in the parts, it's in the workmanshp."
I hope you're trans get straightened out. I never sue anyone, ever, just
would not, but it would be tempting to have a lawyer send them a letter. I
think they should take it back and go through the thing all over. ..
or pay to have a shop who knows what they are doing go through it again.
maybe stuff'l 'settle in' and all will be fine.
I sure hope so !
S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Maglott" <emaglott3@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: My AT Rebuild
> Daryl,
> They said they had trouble finding the parts for it and it took a
> while to get them. I hope they used quality parts. I am wondering
> if they did anything with the valve body or even had the means to
> thoroughly check it out. The thing that is most worrying me now is
> the different behavior when cold. Other than the slippy reverse,
> which is not every time, it does not slip when cold. What it does in
> D or 2 is it shifts at higher speeds and more abruptly. Like will
> not go from 1st to 2nd until about 15mph even if I accelerate and
> take my foot off the gas. 2nd to 3rd is about 33 and again stays in
> 2nd even if I take my foot off the gas. Once warm, it will go into
> 3rd at about 20mph if I take my foot off the gas. Also noticed
> yesterday, I was testing kickdown/WOT climbing a hill. I was foot
> to the floor about 30mph, kicked down to 2nd and stayed there until
> top of hill at about 45mph. Maybe 20-30 seconds. Lifted foot off
> gas and it stayed in 2nd. Stepped back on gas to confirm it actually
> was still in 2nd and then lifted off and it went to 3rd. Do those
> symptoms sound like valve body to you guys?
>
> Like I said I can almost give non vanagon repair people a pass on the
> sloppy work. It's not right but I guess it's more understandable.
>
> Edward
>
> PS, makes me smile to have you back with us on the list!
>
>
>
> At 12:15 PM 7/3/2010, Daryl Christensen wrote:
>> From my own limited experience with cold slipping...The seals of an old
>>trans get hard and brittle and it takes some heat to "seal" them so things
>>work correctly. On a rebuild, it might be a similar thing..A seal was not
>>repl or dinged on install so the internal pressures are not high enough at
>>first to properly engage things. There is an accumulator piston for
>>reverse
>>and if a cheap one was used it may never seal right (or they didn't change
>>it)...
>>
>>As far as the sloppy work..All too typical these days it seems with guys
>>that don't work on the old stuff much. They just have an "its an old van"
>>attitude and not the our pride and joy.
>>If I refer someone to a shop I am not intimately familiar with...I feel
>>responsible for the outcome and call the shop and tell them this is one of
>>my guys and take care of them or else and no more referrals...(hollow
>>threat
>>of course, but it seems to work)
>>Daryl of AA Transaxle
>>425-788-4070
>>"On the cutting edge of Old technology"
>>86 Syncro Westy with a Zetec in the trunk
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
>>Edward Maglott
>>Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 6:54 AM
>>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>Subject: Re: My AT Rebuild
>>
>>Scott,
>>
>>The sealer between the AT and final drive is not blue, and does feel
>>silicon-y. I may see if he'll throw in free extension of the
>>warranty to 2 years based on all the things wrong with it and the
>>damage to the interior when I got it back. If it continues acting
>>differently when cold than hot, it may have to go back anyway. If
>>the lack of attention to detail on those things extends to the inside
>>of the trans, I will need that longer warranty and shouldn't have to
>>pay extra for it.
>>
>>A few years ago I had a kind of major crash in my 2002 golf, $6500
>>damage. Man that body shop was terrible. You should have seen the
>>list of messed up stuff I had when I got it back. Stupid obvious
>>stuff like the seatbelt was routed through the back seat backwards or
>>something, the fuel door release did not work, and there is no manual
>>release, on and on. I took it back to them and left it for another
>>week and there was still stuff not fixed. Like the fuel door and the
>>greasy hand prints all over the headliner. I was pretty angry that
>>time. Now I am sort of used to it and just irritated by it. On the
>>Vanagon I sort of expect it when I take it to a place not familiar
>>with such an odd vehicle. Surely not that way I would do things
>>though, if I were in that business. I worked in a computer/printer
>>service depot once and I would clean the outside of the case in
>>addition to doing all the repairs properly. People would get their
>>old whatever back and it would be all clean and almost new looking in
>>some cases. People really liked that. Alas you are right, if you
>>want it done right, do it yourself...
