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Date:         Sat, 3 Jul 2010 09:15:33 -0700
Reply-To:     Daryl Christensen <daryl@AATRANSAXLE.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Daryl Christensen <daryl@AATRANSAXLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: My AT Rebuild
Comments: To: Edward Maglott <emaglott3@GMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <4c2f40fe.df0ae50a.340f.264b@mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

From my own limited experience with cold slipping...The seals of an old trans get hard and brittle and it takes some heat to "seal" them so things work correctly. On a rebuild, it might be a similar thing..A seal was not repl or dinged on install so the internal pressures are not high enough at first to properly engage things. There is an accumulator piston for reverse and if a cheap one was used it may never seal right (or they didn't change it)...

As far as the sloppy work..All too typical these days it seems with guys that don't work on the old stuff much. They just have an "its an old van" attitude and not the our pride and joy. If I refer someone to a shop I am not intimately familiar with...I feel responsible for the outcome and call the shop and tell them this is one of my guys and take care of them or else and no more referrals...(hollow threat of course, but it seems to work) Daryl of AA Transaxle 425-788-4070 "On the cutting edge of Old technology" 86 Syncro Westy with a Zetec in the trunk

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Edward Maglott Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 6:54 AM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: My AT Rebuild

Scott,

The sealer between the AT and final drive is not blue, and does feel silicon-y. I may see if he'll throw in free extension of the warranty to 2 years based on all the things wrong with it and the damage to the interior when I got it back. If it continues acting differently when cold than hot, it may have to go back anyway. If the lack of attention to detail on those things extends to the inside of the trans, I will need that longer warranty and shouldn't have to pay extra for it.

A few years ago I had a kind of major crash in my 2002 golf, $6500 damage. Man that body shop was terrible. You should have seen the list of messed up stuff I had when I got it back. Stupid obvious stuff like the seatbelt was routed through the back seat backwards or something, the fuel door release did not work, and there is no manual release, on and on. I took it back to them and left it for another week and there was still stuff not fixed. Like the fuel door and the greasy hand prints all over the headliner. I was pretty angry that time. Now I am sort of used to it and just irritated by it. On the Vanagon I sort of expect it when I take it to a place not familiar with such an odd vehicle. Surely not that way I would do things though, if I were in that business. I worked in a computer/printer service depot once and I would clean the outside of the case in addition to doing all the repairs properly. People would get their old whatever back and it would be all clean and almost new looking in some cases. People really liked that. Alas you are right, if you want it done right, do it yourself...

At 11:00 PM 7/1/2010, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote: >wow Edward... >all those issues and the labor charge was a grand. >ahem. >I even wonder if it is actually possibly to get work done that is >100 % perfect. >I don't think it is in regular shops, not based on what I see on >vanagons and reading things like this. > >they're obviously not paying very careful attention to what they do. >and perhaps any shop that has not done dozens of Vanagon auto trans >rebuilds or R & R's should shoot picture of things before they take >them apart ...like any careful doing-it-the-first time home technician would. > >the goop showing at one junction, ...unless it's excessive I >wouldn't worry about it. >if any is sticking out where you can grab it ..see how strong it is .. >I sure hope it's not blue RTV ...that stuff is terrible, stringey >etc. I seriously doubt anyone would use that on a trans. Really good >silicone sealers are fine though. > >'slippy in reverse cold' is what I call that. >I had one German Transaxle rebuild to that some ...I trust them pretty much .. >they were a bit mystified and I forget what happened. Seemed ok >after a while I think on that one. >When I get that...a bit slippy in reverse cold, I shfit in through >the gear pattern ....make the fluids flow into the various chambers >of the throttle body ...'maybe' that helps it grab like it should. > >I've talked to shops before about say a dozen little minor sloppy >things like you list .. >they weren't very receptive about it, and I wasn't agressive or angry .. >but they just couldn't get it ....that the standard should be that >every last tiny part is perfectly in place..or at least that's what >I think the standard is, or should be. But I don't think a lot of >shops do, they think 'close' is good enough, evidently. >I hate to have what I call 'betrayal obsession' ...but what I've >found is to get it done right .. >do it yourself. Sometimes you can't even get a tire mounted right >..or even gas put in your car right . >Crazy. And spilled gear oil in the van ? they didn't get seriously >right on top of that ? >Gotta try to find humor in it I guess ! > >I hope it works out well for you long term, this trans. and >everything else too. >Scott > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Maglott" <emaglott3@GMAIL.COM> >To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:00 PM >Subject: My AT Rebuild > > >>You may have read my posts over the past several months about my >>on-and-off leaking torque converter. I finally decided to take the >>van to a local transmission rebuilder and have him do the whole >>thing. Everybody I talked to in my area recommended this shop. He >>had recently done a very similar job on another 86 vanagon. I also >>considered German Transaxle, either buying from them and installing >>myself, or having a local VW wrench do the install for me, or taking >>mine out and sending to GT for rebuilding. I decided I didn't want >>to do it myself and have it go wrong and have to take it back out and >>ship across the country, etc. Or have to pay wrench to take it back >>out, etc. >> >>So here's what I got: >>$216 089 Overhaul kit >>$294 Rebuilt Torque converter (they sent mine out because they >>couldn't find a rebuilt one?) >>$180 Piston Kit >>$64 Band >>$54 Bushing Kit >>$34 Fluid >>$975 Labor >> >>$1882 total includes 12 month 20k mile warranty. I can add >>another year and some more miles for another $188 if I want to. >> >> >>He said to put 3-500 miles on it in the coming weeks and bring it >>back for checkout and adjustments if needed. Here's what I found >>wrong so far since getting it back: >> >>Shifter needed adjusting, the vertical lever did not line up with the >>PRND21 correctly and the lockout was not functioning properly. ie I >>could pull back on lever without pushing button and get it into gear >>1. Easy adjustment per bently fixed this immediately. >>coolant hose from reservoir to overflow left disconnected. air in >>reservoir. Once I reconnected it, it has now bled itself after a few >>trips. I probably need to check the radiator for air, but it is >>running fine temp-wise. >>Cruise control linkage reinstalled wrong. I put it back right. >>Cruise control speed sensor magnets on inboard CV joint no longer >>firmly attached and sliding around. I removed, cleaned, glued and >>wired them back in place. >>Cruise control speed sensor wire not connected to sensor. I reattached. >>Cruise control speed sensor wire caught under transmission bolt head >>and mangled. I got it loose, cut, spliced, soldered, heat shrink tubed it. >>I had put in the floor of the van, a previous AT and final drive that >>I had, in case he needed parts. Apparently during the initial test >>drive, the driver did some hard turns and braking. Damage to cabinet >>door ahead of fridge, gear oil soaked carpet in that area and on the >>back of the passenger and driver's seat pillars. When I left it with >>them, the parts were at the rear of the floor on heavy tarps. >> >>I found the Cruise control still disengaging randomly today. I bent >>the sensor arm closer and better aligned to magnets, we'll see >>tomorrow. I noticed what looked like black or gray RTV or other goop >>in the joint between AT and Final drive. Is that OK? Before the >>rebuild and actually ever since I've had this tranny, it's done >>this: when cold, start engine and put in reverse right away, >>slipping sensation. engine revs but rearward motion is limited. It >>did that again today starting cold after work Also found today when >>leaving work that the 1-2 and 2-3 shift points were higher than >>"normal." 2-3 would not happen below 30mph even with lifting foot >>off gas pedal. After 20 miles or so it was back to shifting at lower >>speed with mild pressure on gas pedal. >> >>Edward


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