Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:55:55 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Parking brake pressure (was I've had it)
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English invention, disc brakes.
First mass production application is inboard front disc brakes, 1956 Citroen
DS-19 I believe.
and I've worked on Citroen inboard front disc brakes...
air tunnels lead to them under the radiator. ( feels like a Fridae sorta
doesn't it ? )
the calipers
are flat things on top of the discs....they look like snowshoes even ..
short flat snowshoes with one end pointy.
you could adjsut how far down over the disc the caliper road.
the parking brake cable operate a screw inside the caliper pistons.
there was a car that went from inboard front disc brakes to normal outboard
ones.
The Audi 100LS ...
first popular Audi in the US ....late 60's early 70's.
Those cars could wear out their brake pads in as little as 6,000 miles,
which shocked people.
Don't know if that was the inboard or outbaord version ..
but generally ..
the difficulty in servicing and keeping inboard disc brakes properly cooled,
is usaully not worth the small gain in reduced unsprung wieght.
also....running the brake force through axles and CV joints, or u-joints
...that should be just for drive...
and having brakes directly connected to the wheels is inherently more
practical, easier to work on, and safer I'd even say.
There have been Formla One rear wheel drive cars with inboard front disc
brakes ..
so each front wheel had a driveshaft just to connect the brake to the wheel.
That didn't last long.
overall, da brakes belong with the wheels , I'd say.
hey...I'm coming out with a vanagon rear disc conversion ..
with two calipers per disc !
or maybe inboard AND outboard brakes on the same axle ..yeah, I like that
idea !
another nuance....really performanced focused modern cars have the brake
calipers within the wheel base ...front caliper is towards the rear, rear
caliper is toward the front. Just to keep them within the wheelbase.
Lower polar moment of inertia ya know. And as low as practical too .
and of course not turning that energy into something useful...
as in regen brakes ....conventional brakes work great, but what a shame to
waste that accumulated energy ( momentum ) into just heat and brake pad
dust.
and finally ...where does all the tire rubber and brake pad dust go ?
The highways should have mountains, berms, and morraines of tire rubber and
brake pad dust 20 feet high on the sides of those roads ...where does that
stuff go ??
automotive engineering design is quite fascinating I'd say.
I think someone should do rear engine, front wheel drive ..
with solid axles with inboard brakes, no, one single large inboard brake.
and there have been inboard drum brakes a time or two here and there.
what fun !
S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alistair Bell" <albell@SHAW.CA>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Parking brake pressure (was I've had it)
> grrr....
>
>
> re: your earlier post, forget the humvee David, inboard discs have
> been around since the 50's. English engineering (choking on that
> phrase mind you).
>
> and now you seem to be trying to force division between Angus and
> Alistair. If this was not the day that you celebrate some minor
> victory....
>
> cherer
>
> alistair
>
>
>
> On 4-Jul-10, at 1:18 PM, David Beierl wrote:
>
> At 03:59 PM 7/4/2010 Sunday, Angus Gordon wrote:
>> Not to mention the ease of maintenance with disc brakes, reason
>> enough in my book to convert every wheel you own.
>
> So you, ah, foreigners think you can convert me with
> reason? Pah! Wogs begin at Calais and it was Not Invented Here! ;-)
>
> Happy Fourth of July, even though it's not Independence Day.
>
> Yours,
> David
> ps -- did you know Alistair doesna' care for the pipes? Just sowing
> a little dissension in the ranks...
