Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:10:36 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Parking brake pressure (was I've had it)
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wow, you had one of those big Citroen ugly vans ...impressive.
Never worked on one, just know casually about them. I have worked on hundreds of Citroens, including the SM ...Citroen with Maseratti V-6 . They have about 25 feet of timing chains in them, that engine.
One was in my local junkyard's scrap heap about a year ago. 'Shattered Dreams' is what I call those ..
once upon a time it ws someone's pride and joy ..all gorgeous and beautiful and fast for the era.
now it's smashed and dented and ripped apart all over and the 2nd car in a pile of 5.
I'll have to check out that Burly rear disc kit.
Any idea on parking brake performance ?
and it is really engineered well ?
.
- Like are brake lines supported by a bracket where line transitions to hose ?
I wouldn't mention it, but there's a front disc kit where the hose floping flexes the short brake line on the caliper. In Germany they'd probably impound the car on the spot if they saw that , or almost.
They'd sure freak out because it has always been required and standard practice that brake lines get supported by a bracket so brake hose flopping doesn't flex and fatique the brake line.
And the customers don't know stuff like this. They just 'assume' the product is well thought out, when sometimes they are not.
Well, they sorta secure the brake hose with a wire tie ...
not quite what I call Autobahn rated.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jake de Villiers
To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: Parking brake pressure (was I've had it)
I'm pretty sure my Citroen H Van had inboard front discs... it was just the ID19 drive line turned around!.
Burley Motorsports makes a neat and inexpensive kit to mount A4 rear discs on a Vanagon.
Dixie's rear discs will NOT be inboard. Anybody who's had to deal with the inboard rear discs on a Jaguar X-KE will be able to tell you why they shouldn't be allowed on street cars! ;)
Seeya, Jake
On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
English invention, disc brakes.
First mass production application is inboard front disc brakes, 1956 Citroen
DS-19 I believe.
and I've worked on Citroen inboard front disc brakes...
air tunnels lead to them under the radiator. ( feels like a Fridae sorta
doesn't it ? )
the calipers
are flat things on top of the discs....they look like snowshoes even ..
short flat snowshoes with one end pointy.
you could adjsut how far down over the disc the caliper road.
the parking brake cable operate a screw inside the caliper pistons.
there was a car that went from inboard front disc brakes to normal outboard
ones.
The Audi 100LS ...
first popular Audi in the US ....late 60's early 70's.
Those cars could wear out their brake pads in as little as 6,000 miles,
which shocked people.
Don't know if that was the inboard or outbaord version ..
but generally ..
the difficulty in servicing and keeping inboard disc brakes properly cooled,
is usaully not worth the small gain in reduced unsprung wieght.
also....running the brake force through axles and CV joints, or u-joints
...that should be just for drive...
and having brakes directly connected to the wheels is inherently more
practical, easier to work on, and safer I'd even say.
There have been Formla One rear wheel drive cars with inboard front disc
brakes ..
so each front wheel had a driveshaft just to connect the brake to the wheel.
That didn't last long.
overall, da brakes belong with the wheels , I'd say.
hey...I'm coming out with a vanagon rear disc conversion ..
with two calipers per disc !
or maybe inboard AND outboard brakes on the same axle ..yeah, I like that
idea !
another nuance....really performanced focused modern cars have the brake
calipers within the wheel base ...front caliper is towards the rear, rear
caliper is toward the front. Just to keep them within the wheelbase.
Lower polar moment of inertia ya know. And as low as practical too .
and of course not turning that energy into something useful...
as in regen brakes ....conventional brakes work great, but what a shame to
waste that accumulated energy ( momentum ) into just heat and brake pad
dust.
and finally ...where does all the tire rubber and brake pad dust go ?
The highways should have mountains, berms, and morraines of tire rubber and
brake pad dust 20 feet high on the sides of those roads ...where does that
stuff go ??
automotive engineering design is quite fascinating I'd say.
I think someone should do rear engine, front wheel drive ..
with solid axles with inboard brakes, no, one single large inboard brake.
and there have been inboard drum brakes a time or two here and there.
what fun !
S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alistair Bell" <albell@SHAW.CA>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Parking brake pressure (was I've had it)
grrr....
re: your earlier post, forget the humvee David, inboard discs have
been around since the 50's. English engineering (choking on that
phrase mind you).
and now you seem to be trying to force division between Angus and
Alistair. If this was not the day that you celebrate some minor
victory....
cherer
alistair
On 4-Jul-10, at 1:18 PM, David Beierl wrote:
At 03:59 PM 7/4/2010 Sunday, Angus Gordon wrote:
Not to mention the ease of maintenance with disc brakes, reason
enough in my book to convert every wheel you own.
So you, ah, foreigners think you can convert me with
reason? Pah! Wogs begin at Calais and it was Not Invented Here! ;-)
Happy Fourth of July, even though it's not Independence Day.
Yours,
David
ps -- did you know Alistair doesna' care for the pipes? Just sowing
a little dissension in the ranks...
--
Jake
1984 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX 'The Grey Van'
1986 Westy Weekender/2.5 SOHC Suby 'Dixie'
Crescent Beach, BC
www.thebassspa.com
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
