Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 17:34:12 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: battery location, was battery compartment.
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original
I'm not real big on that stock battery location.
( disadvantages are access and weight distribution in the vehicle. ..they
don't need more weight in front ..the need it in the rear )
Not even sure why VW did that.
prior to the vanagon the battery was always back there by the engine.
and in diesel vanagons, the very first water-cooled vangon ..
the battery is back there on the right, by the engine.
I think that was to keep battery cable runs short.
looking at an 85 with 1.9 wbxr engine and power steering ..
the PS and air box intake snout are in the way a bit ..
but .......I have turned a battery sideways and mounted it behind the tail
light there..
it sticks into the engine compartment a bit ..but that works.
that's not an ideal battery location either ...
I would want the battery within the wheel base, towards the rear, and low .
Accomplishing that with easy access would be a trick of course.
there's huge wasted room above the transaxle on a 2WD vanagon ..
always wanted to built things into that area ..
like for a small upright one lb propane tank..
or tool chest ...even battery ..
easy access is the main problem.
speaking of that ..
two things ALL vanagons should have ..
is a fire extinguisher of course..
but also.....seriously , a FAST and EASY way to get the battery
disconnected.
race cars have a well marked main switch on the outside of the car just for
that.
I have a burnt to nothing 85 that started with shorting wires under the rear
floor rubs or mats...
( stereo booster amp under the back seat..
probably fused at the unit end, not the power source end of the wire to it
..duh ...)
anyway..
that guy smells something burning ..
oh crap ! ..there's a fire starting back there.
no fire extinguisher, and maybe if he was daring/feisty he would have gone
for disconnecting the battery in a hurry ...but he didn't ..
the interior fire was so fierce it popped out or shattered all the windows
except on vent window.
with o fire extinguisher or way to disconnect the battery ..
he just got out of the van ..called 911...no more Vanagon .
so we really should all have a main power battery switch for serious
electrical shorts..and I've had it happen too ...smoke coming out of the
dash vents in an old VW Bus ..
and that was another of maybe half a dozen car fires I got out in the first
60 seconds or so with only minor damage. ..
and ...we really all should have a way to get our batteries disconnected
pronto !
heck, I've even seen a fire start on a diesel vanagon ..where you wouldn't
expect fire as easily since the fuel is harder to ignite..
but ...pos batt cable rubbing oil filter for thousands of miles..until one
day Zap ! ..
arcs a hole right into the oil filter...
oil catches on fire there ..
plastic starts melting and burning..
that guy was very lucky - it was in a busy city ..
a utility company truck just happened by with a fire extinguisher
...otherwise he would have lost that whole van .
one more thing ...
if you ever do have an engine fire ....or any fire in any compartment ..
don't open the hood or engine door or whatever !
Shoot your extinguisher through the vents into the fire area.
think I mentioned Halon recently.
the don't make halon fire extinquishers anymore ..there is a modern
replacement chemcical that's similar.
Halon sure is magic.
somewhere I read that it neutralizes fire ..something like that..
it may not just displace oxygen..
anyway I had a little gasoline fire ..
and I instantly know i have two extinqhishers here over on my left, about 5
feet away,.
and one over there about 20 feet away.
gasoline flames are a good two feet high and a foot wide.
I think,...well, I've been saving four of these quite small halon ( cylinder
, 2 inches in diameter, 10 inches tall ) for years . let's try it.
I give the flames on instaneous burst at the base of the flames.
not spray spary, just one pfffft'.
the fire is instantly out.
there is nothing burnt or blackened.
nothing is hot. There's no powder eveywhere..
and most amizingly ....of the two inches of gasoline in a yogurt container
..(testing injectors ) ..
most of it was in liquid form , like over an inch deep, still in the yogurt
container.
I was impressed !
and no mess, no damge, and I used about 1/10th of that extinquisher's
capacity.
so I do think fires start pretty easily ...
the trick is getting them right away, like in the first 10 seconds or so.
not hard to get out when they are small.
and electrical fires...just as big a danger as fuel fires, for sure.
main battery switch is not a bad idea at all
scott
safety maven
www.turbovans.com ..
and I'm a little cavalier/casual about fire ..
you can wave your hand in yellow flame easily ..not even that hot.
Just gotta get 'em out right away is the main thing. Stopped early they're
no big deal, but let 'em, get a chance to grow ..then it really is bad news.
Main battery switch ..
sometimes I put 'em in the ground cable ....just so there is a way to get
that juice flow stopped real fast.
oh..and a directly shorting battery cable can glow red hot from heat and
current flow. .,
so you're not always going to easily be able to disconnenct it properly or
cut it. Main switch is the way.
there's only so many vanagons ..
and their greatness is getting recognized more every day ....
they're still on the rising part of the curve. Still increasing and gaining
in utility, capability and value.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Mcneely" <mcneely4@COX.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: battery compartment
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>> from Edward Maglott
>
>> Of my two vans I have 1 or two covers and neither are in use in my
>> working van. One of the covers has a huge arc mark where it touched
>> positive.
>
> {post interrupted, material inserted}
>
> So, more than one person has reported that the cover HAS arced through
> some sort of contact, whether abused or not, and others do have some
> concern, enough to take precautions. I'm not the only one who thought
> this could be a problem, despite statements by others. However, I may be
> the only one running the wrong battery (sure, right lol! ).
> {back to original post}
>>Both of my batteries are secured with the stock hold downs
>> thought! I hope not having the covers in place will not kill me as I
>> sleep in my van.
>
> Seems to me that any enclosure for an item that has potential for
> dangerous behavior is a safety feature. I wouldn't be concerned for
> sleeping in the van, but I would be concerned for the consequences of a
> collision or rollover. A battery is capable of spilling, and scattering
> acid around. Bad scene.
>
> The safety concern is why I have been furiously trying to get my battery
> box and battery in order. I think I am going to get a standard sized
> battery today (mine is the wrong size), which will at least fit the box
> properly. Then, for now, I'll use the evidently non-stock clamp (but it
> may be right for the correct battery -- will have to see) and fasten the
> battery down properly.
>
> Right now, I have a battery that a previous owner installed, tests good
> and stays charged, that is too small. I have wedged it solidly in place
> with blocks of wood, and the bracket I have (which fits the bolt hole on
> the box front perfectly, but does not engage this battery in any way that
> appears right) solidly holds the battery down. I have the positive post
> (and the rest of the battery, but not blocking the vents) covered with
> rubber, but will try today, if unable to get a stock battery with a proper
> cover, to devise something that is more solid and less likely to be
> penetrated by the terminal should the battery move.
>
> I guess all in all, I'd prefer to have the battery somewhere else than
> where it is, but that's the way VW built this beast. I'd certainly prefer
> to have everything about it all according to the engineers who designed
> it, but it may never be that way if my box is somehow modified (I think
> that is a remote possibility, but the bracket that Scott Daniels pictured
> for me certainly will not fit my box).
>
> For those who really know, are "maintenance free" batteries really so?
> Seems they must evaporate some water, but it seems not routine any more to
> add distilled water to a battery. Vent caps pry off, too, rather than
> screw off, so potential to flick acid. Eye protection when working with
> batteries, for sure.
>
> After-market batteries seem never to be sealed units, like some that come
> with autos. Reasons? Pros and cons of the two battery types (sealed vs.
> "maintenance free")? Certainly, a battery that is not capable of spraying
> acid around would have at least that big advantage.
>
> David McNeely
