Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 15:08:04 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Cockeyed Parking Brake Equalizer
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
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that sounds like a great trip !
yeah, get, if you can find one, a GOOD shop to do a proper rear-drums-off
brake inspection.
the main parts that wear are the wheel cylinders, the shoes and the drums.
it's common that they will want to do all three,
or if wheel cylinders are not leaking , just shoes and drums ..
if not too worn, drums can be turned.
if too worn....they need to be replaced.
drum price 'should' be around ......80ish each would be nice.
if they tell you 150 each, that's way high.
at my local FLAPS recently ..
I get a shop discount ..but they had new drums for about 75 each.
and even if keeping the same wheel cyinders on , they should change the
brake fluid to the rear wheels...
though some shops will try to turn that into 'we only do all four wheels' ..
and then they might try to turn that into a master cylinder brake job.
and I have seen a million front brake jobs with the same old fluid left in
..just don't understand how they can do that. Or they'll do rear shoes and
drums and not bleed in fresh brake fluid. Drives me nuts.
btw...Midas, not that I recommend them..
but once upon a time they had an absolute lifetime warrantee on their brake
jobs...
'forever' ...new pads when they wear out, etc .
they wanted to start with 'all new' though ...like an 800 to 1,000 dollar
brake job.
$ 300 or so 'should' cover a rear brake job, I'd hope.
though any shop can justify 300 in parts alone on vanagon rear brakes if
they want to.
the van itself...
that's not the tricky part at all. ..
the tricky part is getting someone to do good work on it.
at least check your lug nuts when you get the van home.
I see tons of professional work that is just crap, sorry to say !
sorry to go on ..
these days I am telling my tire store 'I am willing to pay Extra to get it
done right."
and my parts guy, since he sent me a 2.1 air filter isntead of a 1.9 wbxr
air fitler..
I'm going to be telling him too..."I am willing to pay Extra to get the
right part."
at tires stores... have huge pride in how FAST they can mount and balance
tires.
I'm telling them ..
no, I want a SLOW CAREFUL job of mounting and balancing . I will even pay
extra to get it.
and I never let them have my whole van or car.
but on brakes, you have no choice.
I see even VW dealers do sloppy dumb things on VW's they service, no
kidding.
oh...you might try this..
call Sara or better Ken at German Transaxle there and ask them what shop
they would send their mother or their son/daughter to for Vanagon brake
work.
they've been in Bend forever..
they would have something useful to offer I bet.
you can tell them you know me. Scott Foss - Turbovans.
I've known them since the early 90's.
Been there many times.
stay cool !
Scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"" <camping.elliott@gmail.com>
To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: Cockeyed Parking Brake Equalizer
> Thanks, Scott.
>
> Good to know that a cockeyed equalizer bar is normal. Bentleys does not
> have a picture showing that, thus my concern.
>
> Since the parking brake provides little to no braking, I thought to just
> tighten the cable. But if the brakes should be inspected first then I'll
> leave the job to someone with the necessary skills and time to do the job.
> I.e., the shop. Probably be a good idea to have the brakes looked at
> anyway, since I'm going to be taking off on a trip to Flathead Lake in
> Montana later this month. Towing my little Westrailia trailer. Up up up
> the mountains, then down down down the mountains. Weeeee!
>
> --
> Rocky J Squirrel
> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
> 74 Westrailia: (Ladybug Trailer company, San Juan Capistrano, Calif.)
> Bend, OR
> KG6RCR
>
>
>
> Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>> it's supposed to be angled some.
>> perfectly normal.
>> I suspect you probably do not have a problem there.
>>
>> it hardly takes much in the way of tools to 'adjust' the self-adjusting
>> rear brakes, if that's what you are thinking.
>> normally those self-adjust pretty decently.
>> if the drums come off easily, one can go in there and tweak up the self
>> adjusters a little.
>> The self-adjusters keep the shoes to say 95 % deployed....I get 'em a bit
>> closer to the drums than that for a higher pedal..
>> but that's not normally done.
>> Usually....it's let the self-adjusters do their thing until it's time for
>> a rear brake job.
>>
>> The only normal service in rear brakes is to
>> inspect for leaking wheel cylinders, see how much brake shoe life is
>> left, inspect drums for how good the braking surface is, and that they
>> are within spec diameter wise.
>> and empty out brake dust ..
>> and change brake fluid to the rear wheel cylinders. ( should do front
>> brakes and clutch hydrocyanic brake fluid too, of course. )
>>
>> if the parking brake handle is high ..
>> it's not really kosher to just go tightening up the 10mm nut on the
>> parking brake cable at the balance bar there ...without checking inside
>> the rear brake drums first.
>>
>> on VW parking brake cable adjustment...it has always always been, since
>> god invented VW's, that the rear brakes have to be squared away FIRST
>> ...then adjust parking brake cable accordingly.
>>
>> and make sure someone didn't tighten up the cable 'before' trying to make
>> up for worn rear brake shoes etc.
>> So sometimes to do the rear brakes initially and right, you have to back
>> off the parking brake cable adjustment some. .
>> With luck the rear drums just pop off the flanges after removing the two
>> small 11mm head bolts.
>> Sometimes the drums are stuck on like crazy.
>>
>> normally you don't 'adjust the brakes' on a vanagon.
>> They are completely self-adjusting, save for that one adjustment on the
>> parking brake cable..
>> and that should almost never need adjusting, pretty much.
>>
>> but they most definitely need inspecting and servicing once in a while.
>> every part of the whole van does.
>>
>> end of that brake discussion...'extra' below ................
>>
>> I was thinking about this ..
>> and I see a vanagon or any car as a whole series of parts working in
>> concert together.
>> and 'parts wear' ..
>> and parts 'wear less' with lubrication and keeping corrosion at bay,
>> maintaining adjustment etc. etc. etc.
>>
>> I suspect that many people think of it as I think of my refrigerator or
>> computer..
>> it 'just works' until 'one thing' brakes or gets weak, then we fix that
>> one thing.
>>
>> that's fine ..except ..on 25+ year old Volkswagen vans...
>> They DID do a pretty good job of making it 'like a refrigerator'
>> ..self-maintaining.
>>
>> take shift linkage ...other than some spray lube ( which sure 'should' be
>> on the official service items list ) ...it's supposed to 'just work
>> indefinitely ...
>> and it will, but it gets funkier and funkier and looser and stiffer and
>> vaguer as the years go by.
>> It wouldn't ........IF ...somebody .....either shops or owners, would
>> actually lube that whole series of moving parts from one end to the
>> other, once a year,
>> and attend to any adjusting/tweaking whenever it wasn't just right
>> anymore.
>> so yes, much of a vanagon is self-maintaining ...*within limits* ...
>> the older the van..........the less the self-maintaining factor works.
>>
>> take brakes...the 'common thing' is people drive brakes until something
>> doesn't seem right anymore ..
>> then they go to a shop ..
>> the shop sells them usually, a whole front or rear brake job, or a master
>> cylinder ..
>> sometimes just a brake fluid flush ...
>> but it's more like 'parts replacing when something breaks" < he yells,
>> 'parts replacing is not really really 'fixing and mainting vanagons'
>> .....it's just replacing parts., which is just the tip of the
>> iceberb...it's just the *begining* of fine tuning a vehcile from one end
>> to the other, it's not the end, it's just the starting point ' for making
>> a vanagon really healthy. ......>
>>
>> Mostly shops do either parts replacing or full restorations..there's a
>> vast middle ground that just invovles, cleaning, lubing, tweaking, and so
>> on ..what I call 'pyhchic healing sometimes.
>>
>> Take...... replacing the master cyhlidner .... just replacing that one
>> part is nothing more than that ' repolacing just one part'
>> ...........doesn't really address what the whole system could really use
>> .....
>> which is to consider all the parts and mechansims and fluids in the
>> entire brake system and 'do little tweaks' to keep them up to full
>> health...like say lube the hidden spot on the clutch pedal where the
>> clivis pin digs a hole into the clutch pedal..
>>
>> To me, if you are thinking about brakes, and thus brake pedal and brake
>> fluid ..
>> you also think about clutch hydraulic fluid and that one spot that wears
>> on the clutch pedal ...
>> heck, you make sure the brake lights are working ...and that can lead to
>> addressing corroded brake or tail light bultbs ..but it's stuff that
>> needs addressing.
>> dozens of little related things like that ..
>> it's like this *whole other under-level* of simple things that could use
>> attention ...
>> and ..so much of it doesn't take special tools ....
>> and not even much special knowledge..
>> like I see how rusted the parking brake cable gets where that nut is ..
>> I can't help shooting almost every one I see with some lube or
>> penetrating oil.
>> I can't help lubing the pivot points of the parking brake handle and the
>> ratchet mechaism in it since it is never, ever done and usually those
>> spots are just screaming ..
>> please, please..it's beein since 1984 in Germany since I got a spec of
>> lube ..
>> and I have metal-to-metal contact going on ...
>> please, just the tiniest shot of any lube , is SO much better than
>> nothing.
>>
>> so when new .....,..for say 10 years,. they are self-maintaining pretty
>> nicely in many ways.
>> Old . is a whole other story.
>> and ...they would last nearly indefinitely with simple attention to
>> things that move that need some lube and address corrosion .
>> I see rusted rear hatch strut pivot points ...badly rusted ones..
>> to me, that's like seeing someone with no teeth when they are 40 years
>> old because they never brushed their teeth ..it is just so obvious, and
>> so simple to take care of and prevent. One shot of spray lube that takes
>> 1/10th of a second to apply last a year easily.
>>
>> anyway ...with 'care and understanding' they'll last nearly forever.
>> the only tricky part is getting some human to do it ..
>> and I don't think it's shops that will fuss over these details.......so
>> that only leaves one person ..
>> either me if I get your van, or you the owner.
>>
>> let's say they are quite self-maintaining for the first 10 years...after
>> that, if you want it to work well, last, and be safe, it takes just a
>> little bit of intelligently applied 'touches' here and there. And it's
>> real easy too.
>> you know..I am seeing a thousand dollars worth of fancy wheels and tires
>> on vangons...but the rear hatch struts are falling off onto the ground
>> because no one could put at least a twist of bailing wire there and give
>> it a bit of grease and a shot of lube.....just doesn't make sense to me.
>>
>> whew !
>> smiles upon everyone's day !
>> Scott
>> www.turbovans.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike "Rocket J Squirrel""
>> <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 9:59 AM
>> Subject: Cockeyed Parking Brake Equalizer
>>
>>
>>> Given that my parking brake doesn't do a whole lot, I climbed under the
>>> van to take some slack out of the linkage. I stopped when I saw that the
>>> equalizer (Bentleys 46.11) is at quite an angle, not at a right angle to
>>> the centerline of the van as I expected. I'm not sure what this means. I
>>> don't have the tools to adjust the brakes.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rocky J Squirrel
>>> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
>>> 74 Westrailia: (Ladybug Trailer company, San Juan Capistrano, Calif.)
>>> Bend, OR
>>> KG6RCR
>>
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