Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 14:54:08 -0400
Reply-To: craig cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: craig cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Symptoms of a bad starter?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikE7qqdxUOaYcaDx0r__g_hzmu8KSUzOTfq-GGs@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
A little testing has just shown the following....
Battery is holding 12.25v at rest. That's not ideal, but not terrible
either. It should be able to start the car.
However, under load, the battery is dropping to 10.2v or lower. That's....
not ideal.
I had the battery load tested a few months ago and it tested okay. So I'm
thinking now it's finally dead.
Replacing the battery will probably get me back on my way, at least for the
time being.
However, it could also well mask a larger problem. In this case, it appears
that there's about a volt drop between the battery and the starter. Some
drop I expect, but a volt seems pretty high. I'm going to take care of some
grounds and hope to reduce that a bit. But, if the starter is only getting
9volts, there's simply no reason why the car should start. So.....
Again, I think the new battery will fix it, and mask the problem, possibly
for years to come even. And since the car is sentenced to death in the next
6 months and all it's good bits donated to an eagerly awaiting syncro......
This seems logical enough.
At the very least, it's a good place to start.
Any thoughts?
-Craig
On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 2:28 PM, craig cowan <phishman068@gmail.com> wrote:
> FIFTEEN DOLLARS PER FOOT!?!?!?
> That's what the local marine store I frequent wanted for 2/0 cable. I am
> not, by any means, paying that!
> I have a friend that makes wiring harnesses offer to make me a new cable
> for less than half the cost of that.
> Furthermore, I'm fine with the idea of just buying a used cable if need be.
> So far, I don't even know that this is really what I need even.
>
> I purchased some 4guage wire and terminals to add some new grounds.
> It has been suggested that a ground directly from the starter to the body
> would make alot of sense (I can see this being logical), so we'll see what
> that yields.
>
> I'm not about to spend most of $200 on a piece of wire for a problem that
> might not exist.
> I'm also hopefully getting a known good starter tommorow as well. Then of
> course, i'm not confident in the battery.
>
>
> -Craig
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Ry <rylincoln@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Fair enough.
>>
>> Reliability is not detrimentally affected by leaving the old ones in
>> there.
>>
>> Albeit your method keeps with stock routing and looks nice(r).
>>
>> peace,
>> -Ry
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:04 AM, dylan <insyncro@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Cool, thats your method.
>> > "Some conductivity" in a few more years will be no conductivity.
>> > I remove the old and replace with new.
>> > My vans and clients vans really appreciate the effort.
>> > Reliability is the highest concern at my shop.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> > *From:* Ry <rylincoln@gmail.com>
>> > *To:* dylan <insyncro@yahoo.com>
>> > *Cc:* vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
>> > *Sent:* Sat, July 24, 2010 11:44:13 AM
>> >
>> > *Subject:* Re: Symptoms of a bad starter?
>> >
>> > the old cables are not "useless" they are still providing some
>> > conductivity, so adding new cables to the old cables will be likely
>> better
>> > than "new".
>> >
>> > ~$40 for all the cable to replace.
>> >
>> > -Ry
>> > http://www.google.com/profiles/rylincoln
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:25 AM, dylan <insyncro@yahoo.com<
>> http://us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com/dc/mailto%3A%25e%25>
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I remove the old useless cable. Why keep it?
>> >> I replace them with cables exclusively from 90 or 91 vans that had the
>> >> dual
>> >> battery setup stock.
>> >> I test all compnents before doing anyhting.
>> >>
>> >> If you want new cable...be prepared to pay handsomely.
>> >> Welding supply has what you need.
>> >>
>> >> FYI, 1.9 starters are 3/4 hp vs. 1 hp for the 2.1s.
>> >> Watch it on rebuilds.
>> >> They don't differentiate between the two any longer.
>> >> I send all 3/4 horse starters back and don't even mess with them.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> From: craig cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM<
>> http://us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com/dc/mailto%3A%25e%25>
>> >> >
>> >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM<
>> http://us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com/dc/mailto%3A%25e%25>
>> >> Sent: Fri, July 23, 2010 8:49:20 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: Symptoms of a bad starter?
>> >>
>> >> So if you run a new cable, you just run it strait from the battery to
>> >> the
>> >> starter?
>> >> Do you remove the old one? Does the old one go exclusively from the
>> >> battery
>> >> strait to the charger?
>> >>
>> >> So, you would get a piece of wire, with the same battery post clamp on
>> one
>> >> end? (And the eye on the other).
>> >>
>> >> -Craig
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:07 PM, Ry <rylincoln@gmail.com<
>> http://us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com/dc/mailto%3A%25e%25>>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I had similar problems on my 2.1. My solution, which may or may not
>> >> work
>> >> > for you, was to run parallel cables at the following locations.
>> >> > Battery <----------------------------> starter ~ 11 feet
>> >> > Front Transmission <---------> Body ~ 8 inches (make sure not to
>> >> connect
>> >> > just to the transmission mount bolts as this is electrically
>> insulated
>> >> from
>> >> > the rest of the engine/transmission assembly by the rubber mount)
>> >> > Alternator <---------> Starter ~2.5 feet
>> >> >
>> >> > All cables made from 2/0 purchased from welding supply and crimp
>> >> connected
>> >> > to closed ring connectors found in the same supply store.
>> >> >
>> >> > My van starts with ZERO hesitation now and turns over super quick.
>> >> Before
>> >> > I couldn't get it to turn over and jumping it would barely work.
>> >> >
>> >> > MIGHT be your whole problem or just PART of the problem. The other
>> >> things
>> >> > mentioned about the brushes wearing out are also a likely culprit.
>> >> >
>> >> > -Ry
>> >> > http://www.google.com/profiles/rylincoln
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:13 AM, craig cowan <phishman068@gmail.com
>> <http://us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com/dc/mailto%3A%25e%25>
>> >> >
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > So, my starter is a randomly picked, untested 1.9 starter that was
>> in
>> >> a
>> >> > > pile
>> >> > > of them some years ago.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Lately, the bus simply won't start. I get great power to all the
>> >> > > accessories, the battery appears to be holding and charging just
>> fine,
>> >> > but
>> >> > > the thing just won't turn over fast enough to be of any value. I've
>> >> > cleaned
>> >> > > all my grounds, I've tightened all my leads, and yet.... no dice.
>> >> > > Jumping the battery off another car no longer has any effect.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I'm starting to think my starter is a bad egg. Any thoughts?
>> >> > > What type of symptoms would be expected from a failing
>> starter....if
>> >> > other
>> >> > > than what I described?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > -Craig
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>
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