Date:         Thu, 29 Jul 2010 06:57:13 -0700
Reply-To:     Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Coolant out episode this aft.
In-Reply-To:  <4C51698D.8080003@pottsfamily.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

  Yeah, I suppose I should bite the bullet and see if I can get the coolant
level sensor warning system to actually work. The temperature gauge, while
it does work, sort of, is not so very accurate or consistent.  The temp
gauge seems to not actually always give you a true reading of the temp of
the coolant in the system always, as you say, Greg.  That must be why our
German friends who designed the Vanagon decided to add another additional
warning light to tell you when you may have a cooling problem that their
first temperature gauge may not properly be showing.  I am no engineer,  but
it seems like it should be possible to get an accurate reading of engine
temp without two systems that work in tandem, sometimes...One system working
all the time seems like a more elegant approach...maybe put in an
independent backup if need be..
  Every vehicle I've ever been familiar with...they gain temperature if the
coolant level falls below the specified levels..Only in my Vanagon have I
encountered one with a temp gauge that goes down as the motor heats up
sometimes..Grin..

  I recall when I was a rookie Vanagon fella and knew not much about the
idiosyncrasies of the cooling system,  I had my first encounter trying to
get the air out of it. (first of all, it never even occurred to me that air
bleeding was going to be needed...most cars, you add the coolant and you are
good to go..) I didn't know, either,  that one of the informal vanagon-only
"warning-signs" (well-known to experienced vanagon drivers) is that if the
heater blows only cool air, that is a certain indication that you are
probably overheating with an air-locked cooling system...Even though my
coolant temp gauge was running  at half-scale and then actually went down,
indicating cool, there was all kinds a hot stuff in the back of the
bus..Shoulda known cold air from the heater is a sure sign of overheating.
I have owned many German cars.  (grin)

   Seems like quite often German engineers 'resish' the chance to add
complexity when they detect a shortcoming in one of their designs, rather
than admit to themselves they designed something that doesn't work too
effectively and re think the whole deal.  As they did when air cooled motors
were finally deemed to be at their design limits in the Vans and the
Porsches, they seemingly just added all kinds of extra "water-stuff" to the
existing basic boxer motors, 'fixing them' problem by problem as they went
along.,   They did make the air cooled designs work sort of OK as
water-pumpers, but in a somewhat round a bout way.

Other manufacturers and engineers might have realized, right off, that a
'fresh approach'-- a new design-- was going to be required..Which is why the
WBX and the 993 Porsche motors were / are known as cantankerous and 'fussy'.
Lots of 'fixes on fixes' to correct problems as they showed up in the real
world usage..

  Vehicles I've owned always have shown increased engine temps on their
instruments when the coolant level falls below specificied levels.  Most
have had a temperature gauge or a warning light...just one system that
monitors engine temp.  The Vanagon seems to need two, working in tandem.  I
am no engineer or vehicle designer but I'd have tried to figure a place to
put the engine temperature sender so that it would work all the time.   not
need a second warning system in order to inform the driver that the first
system might be working ok..  Needing a blinking light to tell you that your
temperature gauge may be reading wrong...that is odd..
  Don Hanson

(apologies if this is a double post, my gmail is acting strange this
morning)



On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 4:44 AM, Greg Potts <greg@pottsfamily.ca> wrote:

> Good catch!  Consider yourself lucky to discover the coolant level sensor
> failure without melting anything.
>
> Does the sensor flash at startup? I always watch for that now.
>
> Last year I learned that my vanagon's temperature will not always rise much
> on the gauge when the coolant light is flashing. I think it would depend on
> the height of the leak point... If the leak point is low on the motor the
> temp sender will soon be dry and unable to report accurately. And you keep
> driving and things get hotter and hotter, and something breaks or melts, and
> it can get expensive quick.
>
> Happy Trails,
>
> Greg Potts
> Toronto, Ontario Canada
> 197x Westfakia "Bob the Tomato"
> 1987 Wolfsburg Weekender Hardtop
> www.pottsfamily.ca
>
> BUSES OF THE CORN - AUGUST 13-15th, 2010
> www.busesofthecorn.ca
>
>
>
> On 7/29/2010 2:20 AM, Don Hanson wrote:
>
>> ther note...I have my coolant level light not working.  Never has.
>> Didn't need it today, either...the Temp gauge was enough to know something
>> was not right with the cooling system.  I check my oil and coolant at ever
>> gas stop...I scan my dash instruments like a pilot...every few minutes I
>> glance down and do a sweep of the needles in every machine I drive..I
>> alway
>> keep a special keen watch after I work on equipment.  Good thing.
>>   Don Hanson
>>
>>
>
> --
>