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Date:         Sat, 7 Aug 2010 15:52:11 -0400
Reply-To:     Jonathan Poole <jfpoolio@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jonathan Poole <jfpoolio@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: A starting battery to starter cable replacement story
Comments: To: Mike Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To:  <4C5DAF54.9050409@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I did inspect the cable. It looks perfect on both ends and also looks perfect under the sheathing where I have cut the insulation for inspection. I didn't cut off all of the insulation on the cable but looked under the insulation around 6 inches inside of each end since that seems a likely spot for corrosion to show up.

My van is pretty much rust free, and like I said the cable looks perfect. I seem to remember that VW went to a larger starter cable later on? Maybe the cable was too small on the early vans (mine is an 83).

Beyond inspecting the cable I:

removed cleaned the ground strap replaced the starter installed a new battery (the most powerful of the available ones that would fit) disassembled and cleaned the ignition switch. etc.

Two times I experienced the situation where voltage was dropping at the starting battery but the van wouldn't turn over at all. Frequently when the engine was warm/hot the engine would turn over slowly but would crank/start. The two times that the engine wouldn't turn over at all were after I had done some highway driving and then parked for an hour or so before trying to restart. The engine had cooled down a good bit but the starter was pretty warm to the touch these two times. I ran some different tests with a voltmeter but don't remember exactly what I saw on the voltmeter.

This last time when the van wouldn't turn over I was able to crank the van by using a remote start switch connected directly to the starter (with ignition off). I then tried to start with the key and it again wouldn't crank/turn over at all. After that I left the key on and was able to crank and start the engine with the remote start switch though the engine turned over slowly before starting. Maybe the problem was a little more complicated and there may be other solutions. I'm not sure why it would start with a remote start swich (although it cranked really slowly) and not with the key. The key was engaging the solenoid as the voltage was dropping at the starting battery although the starter wasn't turning over the engine at all.

Maybe the extra load of the circuit that engages the solenoid via the key switch was enough to drop the entire system voltage below the starting point. My guess is that using a relay to keep the heavy load of the solenoid engagement localized at the starter may have gotten me going again but the starter would have been slow still.

Whatever the problem was more voltage/heavier starting cable fixed it and for the minimal time and $$ involved I definitely would beef up the starter wire if I was dealing with slow cranking issues (after a general inspection for loose/corroded connections)

Maybe other folks on the list can explain in more detail how the circuits involved work and why my visibly perfect starter cable was insufficient even after cleaning/replacing so many components in the system. BTW,, if anyone wants to buy a great looking, original starter cable from an '83 Westy,, I'll cut you a deal,, ;)

Jonathan Poole '83 AC Westy

On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" < camping.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:

> Did you get a chance to inspect the old wire? I'm curious to know whether > the problem that caused the slow cranking was visible. > -- > Rocky J Squirrel > > > > Jonathan Poole wrote: > >> Even after installing a new starter, new starting battery, inspecting and >> cleaning all connections and grounds my van still cranked slowly when hot, >> if it turned over at all. I put off replacing the battery to starter cable >> until last because my cable showed no corrosion or deterioration and >> because >> changing the cable seemed like it would be a difficult task. A few days >> ago, >> after my van wouldn't start in the heat I got motivated and changed the >> battery to starter cable which solved my slow cranking issues. Below is my >> account of the easy job that may be helpful to some of you contemplating >> the >> change. >> >> After my first stop on my day-trip my van wouldn't restart and I decided >> that part of the days recreation needed to go towards fixing my starting >> issue. In the next small town I stopped at a tractor dealership in hopes >> that they had the cable I needed and the ability to press on the ends etc. >> I >> had to leave my air-cooled Westy idling in the near triple digit heat >> (thank >> goodness for the extra oil-cooler/fan) while the guys inside gave me >> directions to a machine shop that could make a new starter cable for me. >> At >> the machine shop they were confident that they could make whatever cable I >> needed and also said it would be fine for me to do the work in their >> parking >> lot (that is unfortunately gravel, oh well). Not really knowing what I was >> getting into I shut off the van and dove into the cable >> removal/replacement. >> In the end the entire process only took around 30 minutes and cost $35. I >> got them to make the cable using wire that was one size larger than the >> original that I removed from the van. I believe that they used 1 gauge >> wire >> but I'm sure that folks on this list can make better recommendations on >> what >> to use. The replacement process that I used went as follows: >> >> Disconnect/remove starting battery from beneath the passenger seat. >> >> Disconnect the starting cable from the starter. >> >> Remove the cable from the van moving forward from the starter by removing >> zip-ties/and other wire retainers and pulling the starting cable clear of >> wires/frame etc. Pay attention to the routing so that the new cable can be >> run along the same path. >> >> When the cable is loose up to the hole/passage above the gas tank/next to >> the shift rod attach a pull-cord/string to the end that had been connected >> to the starter. I used duck tape around the string instead of knots for >> this. >> >> Pull the cable up into the batter compartment slowly and smoothly until >> the >> string comes into the battery compartment. Be sure not to pull the string >> all the way into the hole above the gas tank. >> >> Disconnect the string from the starter cable and have a new cable made >> using >> the old cable as a guide for length/etc. >> >> Connect your shiny new cable to the string, then pull it back through with >> your string until only enough cable is left in the battery compartment for >> connection to the battery. >> >> Re-route/install the cable along the old run back to the starter >> installing/reinstalling clips and zip ties as needed as you go. Be sure >> you >> follow the same path as the old cable, or that the cable is secure from >> hanging down/snagging/chafing etc. >> >> Reconnect the cable to the starter and inspect the wire run making sure >> that >> it is well routed and secured. >> >> Reinstall the starting battery. >> >> Test by starting your van,, if all went well then you are done! >> >> >> I felt a bit silly for having put this off for so long once I had >> finished. Throughout the rest of my trip, in high heat, my van cranked >> and >> started quickly every time. Maybe now that my starting system is in such >> good repair it is time to get a bigger engine for it??? ha ha. >> >> So, if you are considering this change I say go for it. Had I known that >> these cables were so commonly problematic, and that replacing them was so >> easy/cheap, this would have been the first part that I replaced when >> trying >> to fix my slow cranking van. >> >> Jonathan Poole >> >> '83 AC Westy >> >


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