Date:         Fri, 6 Aug 2010 18:40:28 -0400
Reply-To:     Peter Kraiker <bybike@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Peter Kraiker <bybike@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Diesel - too much oil saga
In-Reply-To:  <05f301cb35a5$007c4050$6401a8c0@PROSPERITY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Thanks for the clear reminder Scott, appreciate it. /me takes a deep breath, relaxes a little.

News from the shop:
Compression test showed cyl 3 has a pressure of 350, the rest are @ approx. 380.
3 of the 4 glow plugs appear to be burned out (might explain it being reluctant to start)
injectors show signs of significant carbon build-up, not recent (no comment)

Dipstick... I'm not sure sure (yet) how to identify the model. I have assumed it's the original, and the change in the angle of the engine is why it doesn't measure as originally configured. is there a specific part # I should be looking at on it? (I won't get the vanagon back until Monday so I only have photos to go by...)
http://picasaweb.google.com/pkraiker/MyWesty#
There is a photo of the underside, and a shot of the dipstick in this dipstick's hand (it is still frydae, right?)
There is also a photo of the mark we left on the side of the road, the burnt soot as well as the coolant that boiled over. a few drops of oil leaked out too i think.


Peter Kraiker
http://studiofstop.com
'82 Westfalia 1.9TD 5spd




On 2010-08-06, at 4:21 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:

> I have a 'big rule' about 'speculation about a problem before the facts are
> known'...
> 
> namely 'don't'.
> like if someone is freaking out that their engien is blown or whatever ..
> and no FACTS are known ..
> it is useless and counterproductive to start worrying say, about what a new
> engine costs.
> it might not be that at all.
> 
> maybe I have not seen every word of the whole thread..
> but seems to me, first thing is to find out how much oil is actually in the
> engine ..
> 
> and if it was way too much and that caused a real problem
> THEN talk about who might have messed up how.
> 
> extra -
> here's a 'dipstick story' for you ..
> an example of how stupid 'too modern' things can be.
> Some BMW's have no engine oil dipstick.
> they have a warning light instead ..
> one that says something like 'oil level low' ...
> 
> here's what happens in the real world when that warning goes off - you add
> oil, cause it says it needs some.
> if that doesn't make the light go out, you add more oil.
> Meanwhile you can never actually know what the oil level is ..since there is
> no dipstick.
> 
> so, the official way to trouble shoot that is to drain the oil, then put the
> correct amount back in and see how it works then.
> and if there is still a problem, then you start thinking sensor , or cirucit
> etc.
> 
> but isn't that frickin' DUMB ..
> a warning system that can be faulty ....and the only way to test it is to
> drain the oil and refill with proper amount ...
> when the good ole dipstick costs 20 cents for the manufacture make, has
> worked just fine since god invented cars ..
> talk about stupid !!!
> 
> anyway..
> get the facts first.
> how much oil is ACTUALLY in it.
> is the dipstick goofy ?
> and what is the actual condition of the engine .
> 
> and I would have to say, if a driver of an AAZ engine vanagon knows there is
> anything strange or odd about thier non-stock engine arrangement..
> then they should be very vigilant to make sure people do basic stuff right
> on it ..
> and .
> it just plain is not really safe to have strangers change your oil.
> Frankly..it
> 'should' be child's play easy to do right ..
> yet oil changes are screwed up on cars hundreds of times a day across north
> america..
> betcha !.
> 
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Felder" <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 9:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Diesel - too much oil saga
> 
> 
> Not to argue, but how is it negligent not to know that a previous
> owner or shop made a change to a vehicle? Dipstick level is so seldom
> altered that it is not likely on the checklist of things to look at
> when a car comes into a shop. If shops did check a car over to this
> level of detail, they would have been sued for padding the bill with
> unnecessary procedures as only one in ten thousand vehicles might have
> the problem. If they checked for everything that could possibly be
> wrong with a car when it went in, nobody could afford ANY automotive
> service.
> 
> And, if the owner or previous owner knew about the modified oil level,
> the car has been operating this way for some time, and the symptoms
> should have shown up already. If the owner or previous owner DID know
> about the situation and didn't tell the shop, then they are
> responsible.
> 
> The law normally looks at a course of action in light of whether a
> reasonable person would take it. It seems unreasonable that a shop
> would look at marks on a dipstick as anything but accurate, especially
> if the car had never exhibited overfilling symptoms before.
> 
> Jim
> 
> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Bob Stevens <mtbiker62@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It's the mechanics responsibility to KNOW what they are doing, what they
>> are
>> working on, how to fix "the problem", while the customer
>> has no responsibility or liability for any of that whatsoever. This is
>> only
>> one example, but there are hundreds if not thousands like it.
>> http://ezinearticles.com/?Auto-Mechanics-Liability-For-Damages-Resulting-From-Negligent-Repairs&id=2675550
>> State licensed technicians of ANY kind, who are taking $$ in exchange for
>> their services, are always held liable for their work.
>> It's a very poor precedent to let a paid individual off the hook for their
>> "professional services".
>> That's why Utah Imports drove 6 1/2 hours each way, to pick up my van in
>> Montrose, CO after they installed a cam belt tensioner
>> that seized after 600 miles in the fall of 2007 ... they know how this
>> works.
>> bob
>> 
>> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Don Hanson <dhanson928@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> The idea to go to the manual and get the proper capacity from the specs,
>>> then fill the engine and mark the dipstick...that will solve the problem
>>> of
>>> overfilling.
>>> 
>>> Expecting that shop to 'make good' for damage to a motor they filled to
>>> "the mark"? That might be difficult and actually a bit unreasonable. They
>>> can't be expected to double-check everything to make sure the vehicle
>>> they
>>> are working on conforms to the specs it is supposed to have. When you get
>>> a
>>> vehicle to work on you can reasonably expect it to be accurately
>>> configured. A miss-marked dipstick is not something any mechanic "must"
>>> anticipate in his normal trade.
>>> Don Hanson
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>