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Date:         Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:17:18 -0700
Reply-To:     neil n <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         neil n <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Pop top -- catch this before it's too late.
Comments: To: Mike Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To:  <4C66CF13.1070103@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You're welcome Mike.

I don't see any response yet, so I'll write down what I did. I had a look on thesamba, read Bentley, then....

Top down, clasp resting but not latched, tied arms together with rope. Rope went through upper hinge then around lower arm to keep it from slipping along arms. (stout wire may be better for this. I found that the rope slipped in between arm and hinge making removal a small PITA) Removed fasteners on upper hinges. Removed pins from lowers. Lifted and safely propped pop top open far enough to allow strut assembly to move L/R. I ended up taking apart the NON sprung arms (cable was broken), then took assembly out in parts. I *think* strut assembly can be removed in one piece.

Since I as able to take apart a set of arms with pop top up and safely supported (yes it was UN-sprung due to missing cable but.... there are stop pins. Arms expand to that point and stop), IMO, it may be possible to remove strut assembly this way:

Raise top to full height. Prop top safely to take weight off arms. Remove fasteners and/or hinges as per Bentley. There may be enough room to take out strut assembly as one piece. (though in my case the prop may have been in the way) The springs in arms will be almost totally UN-compressed. If need be, one might be able to remove the Z end of cable from arm, then take apart one side while all is still in Westy. Usual disclaimer: I did not try this.

Once assembly on the bench, I found I could remove the Z part of cable with needle nose pliers or remove stop pin to allow upper arm to rotate further then remove cable. Removed nut & bolt. Tapped arms off push bar. Checked cable for any signs of impending failure. I used slightly expanded 3/4" copper. (see my pics). Lubed with grease. I'd suggest using white grease and cleaning up ends when all assembled. Black grease marks up the canvas quite nicely. (don't ask <grin>) I epoxied a 5/8" bolt piece into cross bar and filled worn groove with epoxy. Even with a mild groove worn in each end of push bar, (passenger side was worn more) the hole at big end of upper arm was still ovaled. I filed it larger and round, then bushed. IMO, one really right way to repair all this would be to weld a proper sized bushing onto the upper arm hole. Check the samba for details/pics on this same topic.

Possible gotchas:

Push nuts may get deformed or fly away into the great unknown when removed. I reshaped tongues with socket on an extension and hammer. Installed push nuts by tapping on with slightly larger socket on an extension, keeping head of pin against vice jaw. I measured my stock larger pivot pin to be *very* close to a 5/16" pivot pin. This pin fits. I don't recall size of smaller pin, but it too is close to an SAE size pin. The SAE size push nuts may work for the stock pins too.

Arms under tension (still roped together): IIRC I released by pointing hinge away from me, held arms together with one hand, released rope, then with a hand on each, slowly let them expand. Maybe safer to put one arm in a vice, then release in a similar manner but with both hands on arm that will move?

Installation: pop top still safely propped up ~ 1/4 way, worked assembly into position, installed lower fasteners, released the arms slowly, lined up upper hinge (top may need to be lowered for this to line up bolt holes). Installed Phillips screws most way in, caulked carriage bolt heads, installed mostly tight, tightened Phillips, tightened bolts.

Hopefully I haven't missed any details I experienced.

Neil.

On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks, Neil. It appears that disassembly and inspection of the various weak > points would be a good idea. It also appears that disassembly and reassembly > might be tricky, there being weighted parts and springs which can go crash > and snap and p-TWANG! and possibly cause a real bad owie. > > Can someone post a step-by-step "how to take apart and put back together" > procedure for those of us who are not-so-ept mechanically and value our > fingers and eyes? > > -- > Rocky J Squirrel > 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana") > 74 Westrailia: (Ladybug Trailer company, San Juan Capistrano, Calif.) > Bend, OR > KG6RCR > > > > neil n wrote: >> >> On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" >> <camping.elliott@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> David Beierl wrote: >> >>>> The basic cause of the problem is that the part of the hinge that >>>> bears on the center tube is much too thing and acts more like a knife >>>> than a bearing.  The rather frightening damage shown in the photos >>>> happened between 1984 and 2004.  Another cause is that as Scott >>>> points out, this stuff never gets preventive lubrication. >>> >>> I can't find a post from Scott dealing directly with this. I eyeballed >>> the situation here and it's not clear where/how one lubricates the >>> problem area. And with what. >>> >>> >> >> >> Here's some more pics Mr. Squirrel >> >> My struts in pieces and repaired:  http://tinyurl.com/28vumgd >> >> there are more in that album. Just click the arrows. >> >> pics show what may be a similar, or same repair as David did. Just so >> you know the copper is not original. I lubed with wheel grease. i >> would suggest white grease to anyone with things apart/repaired. >> >> My best guess, all *stock* parts assembled, is that if one sprays some >> "stay put" type liquid lube (chain lube?) on the area where the two >> arms pivot, it may work it's way into where the top arm pivots on the >> the cross bar where it enters through the lower arm. My other best >> guess is that lube helps, but since it's such a narrow area rubbing on >> that cross bar, the wear will happen regardless. >> >> Neil. >> >> >

-- Neil Nicholson '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco"

http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/

http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines

On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks, Neil. It appears that disassembly and inspection of the various weak > points would be a good idea. It also appears that disassembly and reassembly > might be tricky, there being weighted parts and springs which can go crash > and snap and p-TWANG! and possibly cause a real bad owie. > > Can someone post a step-by-step "how to take apart and put back together" > procedure for those of us who are not-so-ept mechanically and value our > fingers and eyes? > > -- > Rocky J Squirrel > 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana") > 74 Westrailia: (Ladybug Trailer company, San Juan Capistrano, Calif.) > Bend, OR > KG6RCR > > > > neil n wrote: >> >> On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" >> <camping.elliott@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> David Beierl wrote: >> >>>> The basic cause of the problem is that the part of the hinge that >>>> bears on the center tube is much too thing and acts more like a knife >>>> than a bearing.  The rather frightening damage shown in the photos >>>> happened between 1984 and 2004.  Another cause is that as Scott >>>> points out, this stuff never gets preventive lubrication. >>> >>> I can't find a post from Scott dealing directly with this. I eyeballed >>> the situation here and it's not clear where/how one lubricates the >>> problem area. And with what. >>> >>> >> >> >> Here's some more pics Mr. Squirrel >> >> My struts in pieces and repaired:  http://tinyurl.com/28vumgd >> >> there are more in that album. Just click the arrows. >> >> pics show what may be a similar, or same repair as David did. Just so >> you know the copper is not original. I lubed with wheel grease. i >> would suggest white grease to anyone with things apart/repaired. >> >> My best guess, all *stock* parts assembled, is that if one sprays some >> "stay put" type liquid lube (chain lube?) on the area where the two >> arms pivot, it may work it's way into where the top arm pivots on the >> the cross bar where it enters through the lower arm. My other best >> guess is that lube helps, but since it's such a narrow area rubbing on >> that cross bar, the wear will happen regardless. >> >> Neil. >> >> >

-- Neil Nicholson '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco"

http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/

http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines


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