Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 20:19:17 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Garcia's Ghost doesn't like gettin' high.
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hi,
I would think the wood smoke thing has to do with the type of wood, not
altitude.
less octane is required at altitude..
you should., in my opinion, run unleaded regular ( or perhaps mid-grade and
never premium ) ..
whatever the locals have for unleaded regular ..
as long as you think it's decent fuel , you're fine in that department.
'lost power' ...
got a tachometer ?
care to say which engine ..I know you don't have a diesel, and I don't think
you have an air-cooled vanagon ..so that leaves 1.9 and 2.1 wbxr ..
never hurts to day what year vangon people are talking about and which
engine.
when it looses power, tach keeps reading normally, right ?
you always check that first thing during any cutting out ...if tach stays
reading, likely ignition is still working.
one recent 2.1 I worked on ..guy said 'bucking' ..but I think 'cutting out'
is a better description ..
I never saw the van act up like that, and he's been fighting it a year in
several shops .
I noticed immediately it was idling fast and erratically, and smelling
rich.
flat amazing the difference it made to disconnect that cruise control cable
that wouldn't allow throttle to get below about 5 % on .....and thus idle
information not getting to ecu.
and then ..
exhaust leak upstream of the oxygen sensor ..fixed those two things ..van
ran like a dream and the guy said he was going to drive it all around the
next day trying to make it cut out and he'd call if it did.
I didn't hear from him..so possibly it's running like it should.
here is my point ..I see dozens of waterboxers all the time.
Almost 'most' of them are not really running in proper tune.
And I don't mean the standard tune up parts ..dist cap and rotor, plug wires
and plugs etc ..those almost don't wear if good Bosch parts..and naturally,
air and fuel filters need to be half decent..
what I am finding ..
and this is my main point ...I see them *all the time* with too advanced
timing, throttle switch not making contact, and dead oxygen sensors .....and
the occasional 15 year old looking 80 % clogged fuel filter ,
and air intake leaks, and exhaust leaks ..
my point is ..
I even wonder if many waterboxers are really running like they should.
When they are right ...
the start instantly, and go to steady idle.
The idle at a steady rpm and will idle like that for hours on end ,
and they drop to that idle every time ..nice and steady 900 rpm or so idle.
the go well with good smooth power. 'unevenness' in power delivery I
attribute to air flow meters usually.
I have yet to find a shorted 02 sensor or wire ..though I have seen a few of
the wires for the 02 replaced in the ecu harness before .
I've seen some dodgey distributors now and then.
I've never seen a bad coil really.
the 1.9 wbxr can have igntion problems easier than 2.1's . Just found a bad
harness that was a bit maddening for a while.
plug wires ..usually they're fine ...but eventually, or for mysterious
problems ...if they are old or cheap, they are due.
I only use bosch distributor caps and rotors.
many people and professional shops don't even know the felt pad under the
rotor in a 1.9 wbxr distributor is to lubricate the centrifugal advance.
I see the timing too advanced all the time ..stated a 2nd time for emphasis.
and workmanship and attention to detail ....mostly I made waterboxers run
really right just adjusting and fine tuning carefully.
it helps to have known-good parts to run on the engine ...
just had one ...1.9 ...intermittantly no ignition ...good used distributor
fixed that .
btw ..throttle bodies ..
mostly they 'work' but they are all 20+ years old and they wear. so at least
check or think carefully about that part. There is also an electro-pneumatic
throttle switch that works off vaccum, not physcial position of the throttle
plate ....sounds really good to me !
my main point is ...almost all the waterboxers I see that don't run right,
just need careful attention to details.
one after another ..it's not a bad ecu ...or bad fuel or tired spark plugs
..it's cleaning, adjusting, checking, lubricating, etc.
and the fact that a shop worked on it ..
the last thing you should think is 'all that stuff is right, I just had it
worked on' ....
based on what I see on vanagons all the time. - People overlook the most
basic things on them.
and sure, sometimes they do take a good while to sort through ...but very,
very often, it's just some basic thing that someone didn't do right or
notice that it needs attention.
I have seen literally hundreds of cases where an expensive part was just
replaced....sometimes for hundreds of dollars ..they bring it to me, I find
the most basic and obvious things that were overlooked that should have been
done in the first place, and many times it did not need that expensive part
at all.
I've seen that hundreds of times actually.
lots of shops just guess, or are in a hurry, or don't really know what they
are doing , evidently.
anyway ...start with the basics, and build your way up through each system
and part until it's all exactly like it's supposed to be. Then they run
great ..
and ....they can be temperamental ...for sure and sometimes they need
several sessions of 'vanagon whisperer' work before they are finally really
right ...but they can all be gotten there , and it's not about the 'parts'
.....it's about the workmanship and attention to detail.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Fisher" <garciasghostvw@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 1:31 PM
Subject: Garcia's Ghost doesn't like gettin' high.
> My van does not run well at high altitude. When we came here to Mammoth
> last
> year the van lost a considerable amount of power after running normally
> the
> whole way up here, and despite the fact that I filled up on local gas. I
> don't remember the octane, but it was one of those pumps where you have
> three choices for one hose and I think I'd remember picking something
> other
> than the usual 87... on the other hand you'd think that "regular" here
> would
> be a high-altitude formulation. I am going to try to remember to check it
> on
> the way back through town.
> This time I filled up on 87 in Bishop with the same results. Everywhere we
> go here is between 8 & 9 thousand feet; in addition to the low power it's
> difficult to start when cold, to the point that I actually have to goose
> the
> gas until it smooths out. Is there some point where the ECU can no longer
> compensate well for the altitude, or does this point to another problem?
>
> On another distantly related note, I've noticed that the wood fires here
> seem to smoke much more than at lower elevations... is there anything to
> that?
>
> Cya,
> Robert
