Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 19:18:41 -0500
Reply-To: mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject: Re: Propane power...anyone know about that?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=eyn9oxdDUX8W4FdFK=NVLj14pjDKn0ixXHEQr@mail.gmail.com>
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Don, LPG and natural gas are definitely different things. LPG, or propane (I suppose there is propane that isn't LPG, but I don't think so), is a three carbon hydrocarbon, the empirical formula is C(3)H(8). Natural gas, which is obtained directly from wells (and mostly in this country so far as that used here) is mostly methane. The empirical formula is CH(4). As the formula indicates, it is a much lighter molecule than propane (molecular weight approximately for 16 methane vs approximately 44 or propane). That means natural gas has a lower boiling point than propane and has to be contained at greater pressure. Natural gas is lighter than air whereas propane is heavier than air. The two fuels can both be used in internal combustion engines, but I do not believe that natural gas and propane are interchangeable. An engine properly tuned for one is not properly tuned for the other. So, natural gas vehicles are dedicated to that fuel, rather than being switchable between gasoline and natural gas as some vehicles can be run on propane or gasoline.
Interesting personal experience with propane and gasoline dual fuel vehicles. At one time the state of Texas required all state fleet vehicles to be equipped for alternate fuel besides gasoline or diesel. I worked for The University of Texas at Brownsville at the time, and so all vehicles the university acquired while that requirement was in place were equipped to run on either propane or gasoline (there may have been diesel vehicles, but I don't know how that would have worked -- propane cannot be substituted for diesel). So, field trip scheduled, picked up vans and asked about propane use. I was told at the motor pool to take the van to a propane vender a couple of miles from the university for a fill-up, and that if propane was available on my route, to go ahead and use it. The vans had a switch to go from one fuel to the other, and could be switched "on the fly."
So, I went to said vendor, where we discovered that the year old van had a door over the propane port that was rusted closed (probably had been driven on the beach). We did manage to open it, and the port had a seal over it that had never been opened. The propane tank had never been filled. We did fill the propane tank, and the vehicle operated as claimed. I could not tell which fuel it was using except for the lamp that glowed on the switch showing which tank was being drawn from.
DMc
---- Don Hanson <dhanson928@gmail.com> wrote:
> So there are two kinds of gas...as Propane type stuff is called in other
> countries... There is LPG and Natural Gas? Different stuff? And you can
> use these two interchangably? Or not? The Canadian fellow who's site was
> posted by another responder to this question...his vanagon's sound really
> interesting...Flip of the switch on the dash and go onto non-gasoline
> fuel...LPG or Natural Gas, I don't know which he talks about, but it's more
> economical in Canada for him..I think.
>
> He also says his vanagons run about the same on either fuel.
> Interesting. I'd like to hear more about all this..can we?
>
> Don Hanson
>
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 7:59 PM, <mcneely4@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > ---- Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> > It's probably cleaner and it doesn't
> > > come from import or get drilled out of our oceans, leaving a big
> > mess..Just
> > > curious..
> >
> > Don, the other name for this product is LPG, or Liquefied Petroleum Gas.
> > It is from petroleum. Natural gas is cleaner than gasoline or diesel. LPG
> > probably burns cleaner than gasoline and diesel, but it does come from the
> > same sources as gasoline and diesel. I think there is not a lot of interest
> > in LPG vehicles now, but natural gas vehicles are being built and driven. A
> > company here in Oklahoma has its whole fleet converted -- guess who?
> > Chesapeake Natural Gas. DMc
> >
> > > Don Hanson
> >
> > --
> > David McNeely
> >
--
David McNeely
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