Date:         Wed, 18 Aug 2010 19:19:23 -0700
Reply-To:     Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Propane power...anyone know about that?
In-Reply-To:  <20100818201841.V5TTS.1483327.imail@eastrmwml30>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

So the science is coming clear.

 How about the economics and practicality?  I recall when I borrowed a truck
that was propane powered (only) it was more involved to get fuel...We had to
search out a propane retailer and go there...

Now a days many gas stations also have a propane filling tank out back
somewhere, but could you fill a vehicle tank from one of those?  I guess you
could, if you could get the guy to come outside...

  How involved is it to adapt a vehicle to run on the stuff and would it pay
to do that conversion, do you think?  Having the option to run on both gas
and "gas", that would be handy if you couldn't find a place to fill your
"gas" tank...

  If indeed the power output is almost the same and the gaseous fuel is over
a buck a gallon cheaper...it would not take long to pay out the cost of
adding the conversion and the extra tank, I think.  I seem normally to drive
through about $45 per week in gasoline...If I could pay only $30 a week and
go the same distance...and I could  maybe save 1/3 in fuel cost on long
trips...that would be great.   More travel, less cost= good.

  Just thinking here and trying to get some ideas on numbers now.

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 5:18 PM, <mcneely4@cox.net> wrote:

> Don, LPG and natural gas are definitely different things.  LPG, or propane
> (I suppose there is propane that isn't LPG, but I don't think so), is a
> three carbon hydrocarbon, the empirical formula is C(3)H(8).  Natural gas,
> which is obtained directly from wells (and mostly in this country so far as
> that used here) is mostly methane.  The empirical formula is CH(4).  As the
> formula indicates, it is a much lighter molecule than propane (molecular
> weight approximately for 16 methane vs approximately  44 or propane).  That
> means natural gas has a lower boiling point than propane and has to be
> contained at greater pressure.  Natural gas is lighter than air whereas
> propane is heavier than air.  The two fuels can both be used in internal
> combustion engines, but I do not believe that natural gas and propane are
> interchangeable.  An engine properly tuned for one is not properly tuned for
> the other.  So, natural gas vehicles are dedicated to that fuel, rather than
> being switchable between gasoline and natural gas as some vehicles can be
> run on propane or gasoline.
>
> Interesting personal experience with propane and gasoline dual fuel
> vehicles.  At one time the state of Texas required all state fleet vehicles
> to be equipped for alternate fuel besides gasoline or diesel.  I worked for
> The University of Texas at Brownsville at the time, and so all vehicles the
> university acquired while that requirement was in place were equipped to run
> on either propane or gasoline (there may have been diesel vehicles, but I
> don't know how that would have worked -- propane cannot be substituted for
> diesel).  So, field trip scheduled, picked up vans and asked about propane
> use.  I was told at the motor pool to take the van to a propane vender a
> couple of miles from the university for a fill-up, and that if propane was
> available on my route, to go ahead and use it.  The vans had a switch to go
> from one fuel to the other, and could be switched "on the fly."
>
> So, I went to said vendor, where we discovered that the year old van had a
> door over the propane port that was rusted closed (probably had been driven
> on the beach).  We did manage to open it, and the port had a seal over it
> that had never been opened.  The propane tank had never been filled.  We did
> fill the propane tank, and the vehicle operated as claimed.  I could not
> tell which fuel it was using except for the lamp that glowed on the switch
> showing which tank was being drawn from.
>
> >   He also says his vanagons run about the same on either fuel.
> > Interesting.  I'd like to hear more about all this..can we?
> >
> >   Don Hanson
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 7:59 PM, <mcneely4@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >