Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:06:42 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: 1.9 > 2.1 cooling kit?
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original
Hi Rocky,
I have a camera for sure ..
use it constantly.
Either to sell stuff, or this is fun ...
send pictures of the old trashed/rusty/tired stuff on client's vans as I
work on them, then the new rebuilt shiny restored things I put back on
their vans.
ah ..sure.
I suppose I could.
installing an oil pressure gauge is pretty elemental. Not much to it really.
Same for a temp gauge.
I can see value in an overview discussion ..
which type to use, mechanical or electrical, and advantages/disadvantage of
each,
gotchas to watch out for etc.
I'm sure there are lots of such discussions already .
yeah sure, send me your camera and I'll test it out for a while, see if it's
better than the Nikon L110 I'm using these days. lol. no need for that
really.
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@gmail.com>
To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: 1.9 > 2.1 cooling kit?
> Thanks, Scott. Your insight is highly appreciated.
>
> Have you given any thought to documenting and posting a "how to" for
> installing oil pressure and temp monitoring? I, for one, am interested.
> I can loan a camera, too.
>
> --
> Rocky J Squirrel
>
>
> On Wed, 2010-09-01 at 18:14 -0700, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>> I've converted a van like yours to full 2.1 cooling system.
>> every last part, from main coolant pipes back , changed over from 1.9
>> cooling system to 2.1 cooling system.
>>
>> is the 2.1 system simplier ? ...not at all.
>> Can't imagine why anyone would say that.
>> it's roughtly the same in terms of 'general vanagon cooling system
>> weirdness' .
>> i.e. - 'they have their issues too."
>> and they have more plastic parts in them than the 1.9 system does.
>>
>> my current 85 with 1.9 I'm driving ..no plans to convert it to 2.1
>> cooling
>> system .
>> my personal 'really good keeper van' ............85 Adventurewagon with
>> 2.1
>> engine ..
>> still running it on the 1.9 cooling system 'but' .....since I have 2.1
>> exhaust, there's room for a 2.1 style oil cooler at the oil filter flange
>> .......which I have installed, and will plumb it into the system using
>> that
>> part you are getting from GW ..
>> only I have an original plastic one from an auto trans 1.9 vanagon, with
>> two
>> extra hose connections on it ..
>> and that's how I'll get an oil cooler working with 1.9 cooling system.
>>
>> For your van, I would not especially bother actaully.
>> there are more cooling system parts in a 2.1 ..
>> there's a hidden coolant tower/distributor that just crumbles and breaks
>> eventually.
>> the plastic thermostat housings on 2WD 2.1 vanagons ..those crumble and
>> break.
>> you have metal main coolant pipes in your 84 ...
>> which won't mate directly with 2.1 main coolant hoses.
>> there is a very special main hose with a branch coming off it for the
>> auto
>> trans oil cooler ..
>> not a cheap hose .
>> really ..
>> you need about 15 main parts at least, you would need to block off the
>> hoses
>> to the oil cooler if using a 2.1 water pump, since you can't fit an oil
>> cooler on if there's a 1.9 exhaust system.
>>
>> It can be done ..
>> but man ...I don't think there especially would be any gain.
>> Oil cooler if you fit that, but that requires an entire 2.1 exhaust
>> system ,
>> or some aftermarket exhaust system to make room for how the oil filter
>> sticks furhter out. .
>>
>> ( I do think the 2.1 exahust system is better than the 2.1 one ..
>> it's obviously 'more' ..with a cast iron junction on the left side,
>> bigger
>> muffler , a super decent muffler mounting sytsem, where the 1.9 is kinda
>> a
>> joke about how they support the muffler ...totally an after-thought
>> looking
>> odd arrangement of rods ...2.1 is very elegant - the rear engine mount
>> aluminum bracket accepts two nice cradles for the muffler to sit in ,
>> with
>> straps over the top ....
>> so sure, when I'm buiding a engine for a 1.9 vanagon, I'll use a 2.1
>> block
>> and head if I have one, and 2.1 exahsut and intake ..)
>>
>> that works really well btw.
>> but ..to convert from where you are now ..
>> sure..if you had a 2.1 auto trans donor van for all the parts,
>> otherwise , I wouldn't bother.
>>
>> I am going to get into oil temps more. The heat-exchanger/oil cooler on
>> the
>> 2.1 .....I suspect it helps more in wamring up the oil more quickly in
>> the
>> winter, than it does removing heat from the oil under hot conditions..
>> though I have not done any temp measurements with and without that
>> cooler.
>> And I 'should' on my 85 Adventurewagon, since I can test now without oil
>> cooler plumbed in, then connect the two coolant hoses and measure again.
>> I
>> gotta do that while it's still warm by golly.
>>
>> ( of course anyone with a 2.1 could do that easily enough ...just measure
>> oil temp under hot condtions, then disconnect and block off coolant hoses
>> to
>> the oil cooler )
>>
>> here's a good one - on the 2.1 there is a coolant hose that crosses
>> right
>> over the open top of the bell housing ..
>> eventually, heat and oil fumes coming out of the torque converter area
>> eat
>> at that hose. Eventually it fails due to that. I convert that hose to
>> metal
>> pipe there, or at least cover it with flexible metal air tubing or
>> something
>> ...
>>
>> there' s more hoses on the 2.1 system.
>> here is a start of a basic list of what you'd need to convert ..
>> to give you an idea -
>>
>> 2.1 water pump.
>> 2.1 large black pipe on the left side
>> 2.1 plasic thermostat housing.
>> t-stat housing cover
>> bleed rail to go around the top of the engine compartment ...they come in
>> metal or plastic.
>> about 5 hoses to go to that bleed rail, a couple of them specialiy sized
>> not generic.
>> 2.1 coolant pressure bottle
>> coolant tower, right side, forward of the firewall.
>> you'd need to shorten your metal main coolant pipes.
>> when you have 2.1 hoses in hand, you'll need to adapt to connect them to
>> your smaller metal main pipes
>> if you want an oil cooler like 2.1's have ..
>> need that part, the hoses and pipe to it,
>> and an exahust system that will accomodate the oil cooler, since it makes
>> oil filter stick out further. .
>> longer pipe the oil filter screws onto for the oil cooler
>> and all the large hoses.
>> 2.1 rear aluminum engine mounting bracket if you want the 2.1 exhaust, to
>> clear the oil cooler.
>> the two muffler cradles for the muffler,
>> two straps that go over the muffler and connect to the cradle bracktes.
>> and more.
>>
>> anyway ...
>> a lot of work for a little , if any real, gain.
>>
>> though I do think an air type oil cooler would be a very good addition to
>> a
>> 1.9 in terms of engine life.
>> With regard to engine temps in hot summer, this engine in my 85 Westy GL
>> is
>> so tight and smooth running ..
>> I'm switching over to Royal Purple synthetic oil.
>> Bit more peace of mind on those long hot climbs ...though I would like to
>> know what the actual oil temp is, and I'll get an oil temp gague on
>> eventually.
>>
>> you know, if you were buidling up a whole van ...like a whole engine
>> installation,
>> and you had all the parts just sitting there..
>>
>> sure...'maybe' .........a big maybe. Other than the 2.1 incorporates an
>> oil
>> cooler ..
>> I can't really say the 2.1 system is better than the 1.9 one.
>> they are both slightly wierd frankly.
>> each is a little bit weak this way, odd somewhat that way.
>>
>> you know ...the 1.9 t-stat housing can be a real bear ..
>> long bolts get stuck and corroded ( since no one , apparently, covers
>> them
>> generously in anti-seize compound like they should ) ....so 1.9 t-stat
>> housings break sometimes..
>> the t-stat won't always come out directly on them..
>> otoh....2.1 plastic t-stat housing dissolve and crumble ...and
>> availability
>> is iffy sometimes.
>> Neither system is perfect .
>>
>> 2.1 parts are more available though. more plastic too. Metal outlasts
>> plastic pretty nicely usually..
>> you'd be moving sideways, not really gaining .
>>
>> scott
>> www.turbovans.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 4:31 PM
>> Subject: 1.9 > 2.1 cooling kit?
>>
>>
>> > My mechanic called to say that the (AT) transmission rebuild (German
>> > Transaxle here in Bend) went smoothly, they found scoring on the face
>> > of
>> > the oil pump (I may be mis-remembering his exact words) but the
>> > transmission and differential were otherwise in good shape.
>> >
>> > So anyway, when he was putting the engine back in, he noticed old
>> > coolant residue around the . . . cooling tower? the plastic thingy up
>> > toward the front the engine where hoses come together (no Bentley at
>> > hand here in this wine shop where I am enjoying a pleasant late
>> > afternoon thankyouvery much) but after the engine was installed, the
>> > thing cracked and needs to be replaced.
>> >
>> > None of the OEM parts are available, he said, but GoWesty has a
>> > machined
>> > part for 200 bucks (American) that does the job. I told him to go ahead
>> > and order the part, and install the thing. I've been without the van
>> > for
>> > over a week and Mrs Squirrel's Subaru Outback (the iconic Bend Oregon
>> > car) isn't always available; though fortunately the weather has been
>> > fine for bicycling.
>> >
>> > He said that GoWesty made mention on their site that it's possible to
>> > convert the cooling system on a 1.9 over to the less-complicated 2.1
>> > style, although details were sketchy.
>> >
>> > Anyone know more about this conversion? It is doubtless more expensive
>> > than just replacing the failed part, but is it worth doing?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Rocky J Squirrel
>> > '84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
>> > '74 Westrailia: (Ladybug Trailer company, San Juan Capistrano, Calif.)
>> > Bend, OR
>> > KG6RCR
>>
>
|