Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 18:34:36 -0700
Reply-To: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: 1.9 > 2.1 cooling kit?
In-Reply-To: <0b7701cb4a3c$41263fb0$6801a8c0@PROSPERITY>
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Thanks, Scott. Your insight is highly appreciated.
Have you given any thought to documenting and posting a "how to" for
installing oil pressure and temp monitoring? I, for one, am interested.
I can loan a camera, too.
--
Rocky J Squirrel
On Wed, 2010-09-01 at 18:14 -0700, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
> I've converted a van like yours to full 2.1 cooling system.
> every last part, from main coolant pipes back , changed over from 1.9
> cooling system to 2.1 cooling system.
>
> is the 2.1 system simplier ? ...not at all.
> Can't imagine why anyone would say that.
> it's roughtly the same in terms of 'general vanagon cooling system
> weirdness' .
> i.e. - 'they have their issues too."
> and they have more plastic parts in them than the 1.9 system does.
>
> my current 85 with 1.9 I'm driving ..no plans to convert it to 2.1 cooling
> system .
> my personal 'really good keeper van' ............85 Adventurewagon with 2.1
> engine ..
> still running it on the 1.9 cooling system 'but' .....since I have 2.1
> exhaust, there's room for a 2.1 style oil cooler at the oil filter flange
> .......which I have installed, and will plumb it into the system using that
> part you are getting from GW ..
> only I have an original plastic one from an auto trans 1.9 vanagon, with two
> extra hose connections on it ..
> and that's how I'll get an oil cooler working with 1.9 cooling system.
>
> For your van, I would not especially bother actaully.
> there are more cooling system parts in a 2.1 ..
> there's a hidden coolant tower/distributor that just crumbles and breaks
> eventually.
> the plastic thermostat housings on 2WD 2.1 vanagons ..those crumble and
> break.
> you have metal main coolant pipes in your 84 ...
> which won't mate directly with 2.1 main coolant hoses.
> there is a very special main hose with a branch coming off it for the auto
> trans oil cooler ..
> not a cheap hose .
> really ..
> you need about 15 main parts at least, you would need to block off the hoses
> to the oil cooler if using a 2.1 water pump, since you can't fit an oil
> cooler on if there's a 1.9 exhaust system.
>
> It can be done ..
> but man ...I don't think there especially would be any gain.
> Oil cooler if you fit that, but that requires an entire 2.1 exhaust system ,
> or some aftermarket exhaust system to make room for how the oil filter
> sticks furhter out. .
>
> ( I do think the 2.1 exahust system is better than the 2.1 one ..
> it's obviously 'more' ..with a cast iron junction on the left side, bigger
> muffler , a super decent muffler mounting sytsem, where the 1.9 is kinda a
> joke about how they support the muffler ...totally an after-thought looking
> odd arrangement of rods ...2.1 is very elegant - the rear engine mount
> aluminum bracket accepts two nice cradles for the muffler to sit in , with
> straps over the top ....
> so sure, when I'm buiding a engine for a 1.9 vanagon, I'll use a 2.1 block
> and head if I have one, and 2.1 exahsut and intake ..)
>
> that works really well btw.
> but ..to convert from where you are now ..
> sure..if you had a 2.1 auto trans donor van for all the parts,
> otherwise , I wouldn't bother.
>
> I am going to get into oil temps more. The heat-exchanger/oil cooler on the
> 2.1 .....I suspect it helps more in wamring up the oil more quickly in the
> winter, than it does removing heat from the oil under hot conditions..
> though I have not done any temp measurements with and without that cooler.
> And I 'should' on my 85 Adventurewagon, since I can test now without oil
> cooler plumbed in, then connect the two coolant hoses and measure again. I
> gotta do that while it's still warm by golly.
>
> ( of course anyone with a 2.1 could do that easily enough ...just measure
> oil temp under hot condtions, then disconnect and block off coolant hoses to
> the oil cooler )
>
> here's a good one - on the 2.1 there is a coolant hose that crosses right
> over the open top of the bell housing ..
> eventually, heat and oil fumes coming out of the torque converter area eat
> at that hose. Eventually it fails due to that. I convert that hose to metal
> pipe there, or at least cover it with flexible metal air tubing or something
> ...
>
> there' s more hoses on the 2.1 system.
> here is a start of a basic list of what you'd need to convert ..
> to give you an idea -
>
> 2.1 water pump.
> 2.1 large black pipe on the left side
> 2.1 plasic thermostat housing.
> t-stat housing cover
> bleed rail to go around the top of the engine compartment ...they come in
> metal or plastic.
> about 5 hoses to go to that bleed rail, a couple of them specialiy sized
> not generic.
> 2.1 coolant pressure bottle
> coolant tower, right side, forward of the firewall.
> you'd need to shorten your metal main coolant pipes.
> when you have 2.1 hoses in hand, you'll need to adapt to connect them to
> your smaller metal main pipes
> if you want an oil cooler like 2.1's have ..
> need that part, the hoses and pipe to it,
> and an exahust system that will accomodate the oil cooler, since it makes
> oil filter stick out further. .
> longer pipe the oil filter screws onto for the oil cooler
> and all the large hoses.
> 2.1 rear aluminum engine mounting bracket if you want the 2.1 exhaust, to
> clear the oil cooler.
> the two muffler cradles for the muffler,
> two straps that go over the muffler and connect to the cradle bracktes.
> and more.
>
> anyway ...
> a lot of work for a little , if any real, gain.
>
> though I do think an air type oil cooler would be a very good addition to a
> 1.9 in terms of engine life.
> With regard to engine temps in hot summer, this engine in my 85 Westy GL is
> so tight and smooth running ..
> I'm switching over to Royal Purple synthetic oil.
> Bit more peace of mind on those long hot climbs ...though I would like to
> know what the actual oil temp is, and I'll get an oil temp gague on
> eventually.
>
> you know, if you were buidling up a whole van ...like a whole engine
> installation,
> and you had all the parts just sitting there..
>
> sure...'maybe' .........a big maybe. Other than the 2.1 incorporates an oil
> cooler ..
> I can't really say the 2.1 system is better than the 1.9 one.
> they are both slightly wierd frankly.
> each is a little bit weak this way, odd somewhat that way.
>
> you know ...the 1.9 t-stat housing can be a real bear ..
> long bolts get stuck and corroded ( since no one , apparently, covers them
> generously in anti-seize compound like they should ) ....so 1.9 t-stat
> housings break sometimes..
> the t-stat won't always come out directly on them..
> otoh....2.1 plastic t-stat housing dissolve and crumble ...and availability
> is iffy sometimes.
> Neither system is perfect .
>
> 2.1 parts are more available though. more plastic too. Metal outlasts
> plastic pretty nicely usually..
> you'd be moving sideways, not really gaining .
>
> scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 4:31 PM
> Subject: 1.9 > 2.1 cooling kit?
>
>
> > My mechanic called to say that the (AT) transmission rebuild (German
> > Transaxle here in Bend) went smoothly, they found scoring on the face of
> > the oil pump (I may be mis-remembering his exact words) but the
> > transmission and differential were otherwise in good shape.
> >
> > So anyway, when he was putting the engine back in, he noticed old
> > coolant residue around the . . . cooling tower? the plastic thingy up
> > toward the front the engine where hoses come together (no Bentley at
> > hand here in this wine shop where I am enjoying a pleasant late
> > afternoon thankyouvery much) but after the engine was installed, the
> > thing cracked and needs to be replaced.
> >
> > None of the OEM parts are available, he said, but GoWesty has a machined
> > part for 200 bucks (American) that does the job. I told him to go ahead
> > and order the part, and install the thing. I've been without the van for
> > over a week and Mrs Squirrel's Subaru Outback (the iconic Bend Oregon
> > car) isn't always available; though fortunately the weather has been
> > fine for bicycling.
> >
> > He said that GoWesty made mention on their site that it's possible to
> > convert the cooling system on a 1.9 over to the less-complicated 2.1
> > style, although details were sketchy.
> >
> > Anyone know more about this conversion? It is doubtless more expensive
> > than just replacing the failed part, but is it worth doing?
> >
> > --
> > Rocky J Squirrel
> > '84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
> > '74 Westrailia: (Ladybug Trailer company, San Juan Capistrano, Calif.)
> > Bend, OR
> > KG6RCR
>
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