Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 08:28:45 -0700
Reply-To: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Westy being held to ransom was: wetfalia stock weight
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=94jrAQB49yw6ZXDF=CkDVAoj+y8Y5foK2dRci@mail.gmail.com>
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If the truck crossed state lines it falls under the Carmack Amendment.
A must-read for anyone considering paying someone to carry personal
property across state lines is here:
http://www.movingscam.com/
Pullquote:
Carmack purports to govern every single aspect of the shipping
transaction. In the late 1990s, several courts handed down decisions
interpreting Carmack as being so thorough and far-reaching that it
"preempts" all other remedies that would otherwise be available to a
plaintiff-shipper under state law. That is, suing for fraud under state
consumer fraud/deceptive practices statutes was preempted. That means
that an interstate mover can tell you: "I guarantee you that your move
will cost only $2000," while intending to hold your goods hostage for
$4000 at destination while knowing all the while that there's nothing
you can do about it.
"Believe it or not, should he do that, according to these courts, you
can only sue the mover under Carmack (not for state fraud, etc.), and
Carmack, in turn, will allow you to ONLY get your $2000 overcharge back
from the moving company. Believe it or not, a mover's "punishment" for
stealing from you is to give back what he stole, and that's only if he
gets caught and someone forces him to give it back which is no small
undertaking in itself. Overall, it's a pretty sweet situation for moving
companies, wouldn't you say?"
and
"Once the movers show up and most or all of your things are in their
truck, they will hit you with the real price of the move. By then it's
too late. Your things are on their truck, and they won't get anything
off of it without full payment in cash. They will tell you that if you
don't pay up, that they will take the truck and sell everything you own
to cover the contract. In my case, I put down a $150 deposit, and was
told before the movers showed up that the rest of the $1869 would be due
on delivery. When the movers showed up, the price jumped to $5012.50,
and the movers demanded half of that on the spot or else there wouldn't
be a delivery!
"And then there is the amount of time that these companies take to
actually deliver your things. America's Best Movers took over six weeks
to deliver my belongings from Virginia to Nevada. I drove it in three
days. During the time that I waited for my things I was not only told
lie after lie about where my things were, but I incurred a lot of
expenses for things that you need every day... you can only sit on the
floor for so long before you need a chair, and try to cook a
Thanksgiving dinner without a pan.
"These companies break a lot of laws pulling off this scam, but be aware
that since Congress did away with the Interstate Commerce Commission in
the 1995, the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration is responsible
for oversight of the industry. The FMCSA, however, has very few
investigators enforcing the regulations in this industry... and
companies like America's Best Movers know it!
"Also, demand to see the contract up front. America's Best Movers had a
clause on their contract that says you can only sue them in Florida -
this is on the contract as the 'choice of venue'. The FMCSA has recently
informed me that choice of venue is not applicable to movers and you can
file a small claims suit in your local jurisdiction, but you should
contact an attorney and speak with them about your options."
Reading stuff like this is what prompted me to rent two big U-Hauls and
move our personal property from California to Oregon rather than hire a
moving company. If the move had been in-state, I'd know I had recourse,
but interstate? It's the wild west out there.
There may be something useful here, "How to File Complaints Against Your
Moving Company" at http://www.movingscam.com/fileComplaints.shtml
and, "How to File in Small Claims Court Against a Moving Company" at
http://www.movingscam.com/news/smallclaims.shtml
Good luck! The interstate moving business is a dog-eat-dog world and
you're wearing Milk-Bone shorts.
--
Rocky J Squirrel
On Thu, 2010-09-09 at 07:22 -0700, Don Hanson wrote:
> Having a signed contract may give some leverage. Typically, it will
> be what is on paper that counts, not what the mover "said" not what
> the movee "understood"...the actual words on the document are what
> will count, nothing else. Getting caught up in a mess like this means
> getting a lawyer. And make sure you read your contract with the
> lawyer, too. Sometimes those 'humans' are worse than the crooks you
> are trying to get settled with. They will want a cut of the
> settlement, the money they get back from the guy...or they'll charge
> out at a very high hourly rate. Careful with them, too.
>
> Don Hanson
>
> "De-regulation" during recent years certainly has favored those
> doing the sheep-shearing rather than us, in the Flock.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 6:57 AM, Rocket J Squirrel
> <camping.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately, the interstate moving industry is effectively
> unregulated
> And scams are common.
>
> "http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/SavingandDebt/P95319.asp
>
> The interstate moving industry has been all but unregulated
> since 1995,
> when Congress got rid of the Interstate Commerce Commission.
>
> * The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
> (FMCSA), which
> is nominally responsible for interstate movers, focuses
> on
> reducing crashes. The agency has just three employees
> who
> monitor movers and cannot intervene on an individual
> consumers
> behalf.
>
> * The FBI has investigated some complaints and last year
> busted 16
> southern Florida movers in Operation Stow Biz. But the
> agency is
> among the first to admit that the arrests barely made a
> dent in
> this scam-infested industry.
>
> * Complaints about movers have more than tripled in the
> past
> decade, according to the Council of Better Business
> Bureaus,
> with 9,405 lodged last year alone. Like all good
> pirates, moving
> industry swindlers have taken note of the lack of
> regulation and
> enforcement, exploiting it to their full advantage.
> * "Typically, the con artists lull you with a lowball
> quote. Once
> your goods are on their trucks, they demand you pay
> two, three
> or even four times the agreed-upon amount. If you balk,
> your
> household goods are tossed into a warehouse somewhere
> to molder
> until you give in.
>
> --
> Rocky J Squirrel
>
>
>
> On Wed, 2010-09-08 at 19:19 -0600, Florian Speier wrote:
> > sorry I have to vent here a little.
> >
> > shockingly enough, the moving company is now holding my van
> to ransom.
> > The guy is unwilling to deliver my van unless I beforehand
> agree in
> > writing to pay him $800 instead of the $600 in the Uship
> contract by
> > tomorrow night, otherwise he will increase his price. He is
> not
> > willing to bring it here and discuss a solution. Per the
> Uship
> > agreement, last weeks friday was the latest acceptable
> delivery date.
> > He accepted the load when loading and said the weight is no
> problem.
> > We even fixed a flat tire on his trailer for free and stored
> his
> > trailer for four days for him. When he finally left he
> plowed over the
> > gate with serious damage.
> >
> > aaargh.
> >
> > thanks for listening. sorry for bothering the list.
> > Florian
>
>
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