Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 22:35:32 -0400
Reply-To: Edward Maglott <emaglott3@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Edward Maglott <emaglott3@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: semi-urgent auto transmission question
In-Reply-To: <065201cb51e8$59137120$6801a8c0@PROSPERITY>
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Thanks all for your input on this. I thought of one more thing that
may be relevant. My street is on a hill, usually I go
downhill. Today may have been the firs time I've come out of the
driveway and tried to go uphill. So it may have been acting like
this since I got it back from the shop, but I didn't' notice because
I was backing out and putting it in D pointing down hill. I always
drive very gently at first so I am basically coasting down the street.
The linkage seems to be adjusted properly. throttle goes to wide
open then I feel the kickdown detent and kickdown is working
properly. Before this rebuild it always shifted too early for my
taste in most cases, and with little regard for gas pedal
position. Like with little pressure on the pedal it would be in 3rd
gear before 20mph. Even moderate pressure it would shift way too
soon. I would often put the shifter in 2 around town so it wouldn't
go into 3rd so early. Now it really seems to react to the gas pedal
position. Accelerating uphill on an on-ramp I I had the pedal at
WOT, but not into kickdown. Shifted nicely from 2-3 at about
4000rpms so it landed in 3rd in the meat of the torquey rpms.
I lowered the fluid level this afternoon. Now when it is hot, on the
level spot I like to use it averages about 2/10 of the way from the
low mark to the high mark. (I read it, then turn the van in the
opposite direction on the same spot and read again.) Tonight I
drove it and was parked about 4 hours. When I came out I started it
and put it in D. Nothing for about 5 seconds then I felt/heard it
engage. Drove about 10 miles and checked the level again and it
drove very well. I will check it again in the morning. Put it in D
and see what it does.
I know about German transaxle and their valve body dyno. My other
choice on this project was to buy one of their trannys. Now of
course that looks like it was the better choice. The guy I used was
widely endorsed by all the local trusted VW mechanics. I know this
is not a complicated AT. He claims he has trouble finding parts. I
told him German Transaxle has everything he needs. I suspect he's
already lost money on this deal. When I take it back again, I'm not
going to be smiling. True it's a weird vehicle to most modern shops,
but once they get that tranny on the bench it should be super simple
for them. I have checked the CV joints and bolts, etc. I pretty
much assume anybody who does any service for me on anything is going
to screw something up. It's sad.
Edward
At 03:34 PM 9/11/2010, you wrote:
>re
>but the shift points seemed a little lower than before."
>
>
>there's one external adjustment that affects shift points ..
>the length of the rod from throttle lever on side of trans to throttle body.
>
>might ask if that was changed or adjusted.
>other than that, for shift points I think of governor.
>
>wouldn't hurt to suck a little ATF out of the filler tube.
>one auto trans shop I had work on a volvo auto trans of mine, had a
>nifty little home made glass bottle and tube arrangement ..
>they just taped into engine vaccuum to get the suction ..
>and you pull out say, a couple inches of ATF into the bottle.
>
>I doubt being overfull a tiny bit is causing your problems ...but
>overful can be a very bad thing and it's better to be sure .
>
>I have a hunch the shop might be wondering themselves what is going on.
>they are pertty fmaiiar with vanagon automatics ?
>
>I'm kinda shocked that 'modern' shops and technicians can be almost
>baffled by a simple old vw bus...
>the vanagon.
>One guy in colorado had his 2WD vanagon in for a smog test on
>rollers ...the smog tech thought it was front wheel drive ..
>that is being pretty clueless, or not looking in the lists I'm sure
>they must have that tell how to test each type of US model car or van.
>
>gets a bit scary. I would say it's worth it to send the trans to a
>transmission rebuilding shop that does a lot of them. German
>Transaxle in Bend OR is sure one.
>
>to give you an idea of their level of expereince or expertise, I was
>working on a vanagon that just would not shift up into 3rd.
>The van's owner didn't want to put real money into fixing it, so
>went for cleaning, inspecting, looking at the valve body etc. In
>that process, taking to German Transaxle ..
>found out that they sell rebuilt Valve Bodies....but here is the
>impressive part - they have a dyno to test them on.
>and when you read in Bentley how to set up little adjustable spring
>tensions in the valve body relative to hydrualic pressure ...you
>start seeing it gets pretty complicated.
> like the valve body is a Anologue Computer really ...
>takes inputs, makes decesions, has outputs .....tricky darn part.
>
>my point is, without expereince and fancy equipment like that ..I
>suspect that some trans rebuilding shops figure to replace worn
>parts, and things should work as they did before ..
>which may not really be the case always.
>
>anyway, hope someone gets it figured out !
>Personally, I'd check the differential oil level and CV joint screws ..
>Iv'e seen all kinds of things done wrong by shops ..it's almost normal.
>
>scott
>www.turbovans.com
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Maglott" <emaglott3@GMAIL.COM>
>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 10:39 AM
>Subject: semi-urgent auto transmission question
>
>
>>Got my 86 van back a week or so ago after a transmission rebuild that
>>has been a saga. I will cover that in more detail at some
>>point. The short version is that the rebuilder had the van twice,
>>and for a long time both times.
>>
>>When I got it back a week ago the trans was working better than I've
>>ever experienced in a vanagon. But then I've only had basically worn
>>out transmissions in mine. So over the 100 miles or so I've driven
>>it since I got it back, it has developed a problem when cold. Today
>>I start the van, let it idle about a minute and back up my driveway,
>>which is uphill. Fine. Put it in D and hear/feel nothing. Step on
>>the gas and it revs freely up to about 2500 then the van takes off
>>with a thud. For about the first block, it felt like it was maybe
>>slipping or was in 2nd gear instead of 1st. After that it drove
>>normally, but the shift points seemed a little lower than before.
>>
>>I think this symptom has to do with the trans not properly developing
>>pressure when cold? I've had the slipping in R when cold symptom
>>before this rebuild so I'm a little surprised it went up the driveway
>>so well in R and then didn't engage D.
>>
>>Checking the fluid level, it seems a tiny bit high. Probably about
>>1/8" above the top mark based on checking it hot, many times, and
>>parked on different "level looking" places to try to get a good
>>reading. Could this be a factor?
>>
>>I was planning on taking a trip for about a week in the next few
>>days. Probably 1000 miles or less. I can deal with the symptoms I
>>have now but don't know if it will get worse or damage something
>>inside worse. Opinions?
>>
>>Edward
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