Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 10:48:44 -0400
Reply-To: Ken Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Ken Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes Endanger Engines
In-Reply-To: <vanagon%2010101409540902@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Derek et all,
Just FYI, many new OE Volkswagen coolant pipes are now being made out of
stainless steel. I import these directly from Germany and they have the
VW logo on them. If this is such a bad idea why is VW now on the
bandwagon? I think they feel that if they are going to go to the effort
to reproduce a part that is NLA, they might as well make it the best it
can be. Many of the pipes made of plain steel were rusting from the
inside out. If that isn't a sign that the regular steel pipes were
reacting to the alphabet soup that is the inside of a waterboxer coolant
system then I don't know what is. Show me proof that what you are
claiming happens and I will get behind some type of preventative measure
like the sacrificial anode, etc. I am sure that you could set up an
experiment where there are pieces of the material, suspended in coolant
over a years time, along with a control and you could say for sure if
this theory is valid or not. Instead all I have seen so far is arm
chair speculation.
I believe the reason VW didn't make the coolant pipes out of stainless
initially was cost not any type of corrosion issue. I mean you have a
motor with steel, cast iron, aluminum, magnesium, brass, plastic and
rubber, all connected by a soup of antifreeze and you are worried that
stainless steel is going to make this situation worse? I just don't buy
it. If your antifreeze is up to par your engine will be protected, if
you let it get old and don't renew it, your engine will corrode on the
inside. I have seen it happen many times and the worst ones were the
ones that sat the most, not any specific type of metal piping involved.
This is just my opinion and is not science. However I would submit to
you that so is all of the negative speculation about the effects of
stainless steel in your cooling system.
--
Thanks,
Ken Wilford
John 3:16
www.vanagain.com
Phone: 856-327-4936
Fax: 856-327-2242
On 10/14/2010 9:51 AM, Derek Drew wrote:
> It has become very common in Vanagon circles for owners to change
> their coolant pipes to stainless steel designs.
>
> Terry K introduced one of the first stainless steel pipes in North
> America, and other thinner walled pipes were later introduced from
> Europe and elsewhere. Now, many vendors offer stainless pipes, and
> the plastic pipes that seemed so stupid to us because they fail are
> becoming NLA (no longer available).
>
> An argument came to my attention this week at RJES that the use of
> stainless steel for coolant pipes is a kind of an idiot thing to
> do..... a kind of automotive-engineering-101-no-no.
>
> Apparently, engine coolant tends to be conductive enough that even
> though the stainless pipes are not touching at either end, the
> stainless pipes can create a battery (galvanic corrosion) and cause
> the engine to start turning into a more dust like material over time.
>
> I am sure that many of you have seen old transmissions with magnesium
> housings that mysteriously turned to dust on the top, apparently
> because of a battery set up between the magnesium and the aluminum
> engines.
>
> Theoretically, the use of stainless steel pipes could be causing our
> engines to be changing this way as well, through galvanic electricity
> passed through the engine coolant.
>
> This is either an emergency, as potentially now thousands of Vanagons
> in North America with stainless coolant pipes must now have the pipes
> removed, or it is a potential problem that we can manage by attention
> to the issue from our more capable automotive engineers.
>
> If there is an alternative to ripping the pipes out of all our vans,
> it seems that help might be found in one or more of the following:
>
> a) methods to alter the chemistry of the coolant to make it less
> conductive, less electrolyte?, less acidic? such as potentially
> adding Schaeffer's Clean and Cool:
> http://www.schaefferoil.com/specialty/258_coolant_additive.html
>
> b) placement of zinc sacrificial anodes in such a way as to protect
> the engine,
>
> c) take steps to make sure there are no electrical contacts
> (uninsulated contacts) between the stainless pipes and the metal of
> the vehicle body or any metal part, or
>
> c) just poo poo the issue and announce that we have not seen engines
> degraded yet due to the use of these pipes.
>
> I noticed that the Schaefferoil is available in various sizes,
> including 55 gallon drums, which I imagine might be something we
> could order in advance of van meetings as a draw to attend, and a
> communal religious experience of drinking of the 55 gallon drum for
> initiates.
>
> It remains to be discussed how realistic the claims might be that
> this stuff can stop galvanic corrosion through the coolant water so
> commentary on that is sought.
>
> Here is Richard's RJES.com alarming and thoughtful text on the
> subject that I noticed this week:
>
> http://www.rjes.com/html/material_choice.html
>
> The following Google search query produces more on the topic if
> anybody can spend some time in these links:
>
> "engine coolant" conductive galvanic
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Derek Drew
> Founder, ConsumerSearch.com
> Washington DC / New York
> derekdrew@derekmail.com
> 202-966-7907 (Call the number at left normally)
> (alt/cell for diligent calling only): 703-408-1532
>
| 
