Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 13:05:14 -0700
Reply-To: Jeff Schwaia <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jeff Schwaia <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Good collaboration with a mechanic?
In-Reply-To: <005f01cb76d7$510c5500$6501a8c0@PROSPERITY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
My Father used to have a sign on the wall of his shop back in the '80s:
Labor Rate
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
$ 50/hr
$ 75/hr - If you watch
$100/hr - If you help
Cheers,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:36 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Good collaboration with a mechanic?
hey ..
if anyone wants to come to my shop...
and PAY ME $ 50 an hour cash ..
come right on over !!!
I would be really rich doing those kinds of deals.
Let's see. ..
a guy arrives at 11 AM ..he works on his brakes until 2 PM and hands me $
150 and leaves.
in that time span ...there is barely time to remove wheels and drums and
pads and inspect things, and figure out the plan of attack ..
or let's say he or she arrives with brake shoes, wheel cylinders, brake
drums and all that ..
and I have compressed air and air tools.
The clock will easily go from 11AM unto 2Pm before you know it ..
about the time needed to get the rear brakes apart, all the old stuff off,
things cleaned up ..
new parts on ( with perfect workmanship and no mistakes or wondering what
fits where of course ) ..
new parts on and adjusted, then bleed rear brakes,
then wheels back on , then test drive ..
SURE ....that is barely possible ..unless it's slam-dunk work ..
and you hand me 150 cash at 2:05 PM ...
YES, come on over !
hey..I can squease 3 of those into one day ..
450 cash ....sounds mighty juicy to me !
Here's what I am getting at ..
to do it really right takes a lot longer than you'd think.
How long does a clutch job take ...
say 6 hours if everything goes really well...
300 cash to me ..
sure ...let's go for it.
it depends a LOT on someone's apptitute and abilities.
If they don't mind I let them do all their silly mistakes, ..
and they pay 50 cash an hour for that ....let's do it !
I do have people work with me on their vans in my shop from time to tome.
Once in a while there's a guy or person with whom it's a DELITGHT to work..
they're eager, have great apptitude, and are just fun to work with.
and I don't even charge them anywhere near 50 cash an hour.
on the other hand ..there are people who want to 'help' ...with zero
apptitude nearly ..
and I am TRAPPED in that case,
all my energy has to go into making sure they do it right.
I can't say.....take a phone call for 20 minutes. I can't do anything .
except make sure they do it right.
Now those people should pay 75 and hour for trainning and education about
how to work on their vanagon.
With those people....as far as getting the job done right in a timely
manner ..
it would help exponentially if they would go somewhere else.
as far as 'mechanics like help' ..
well I suppose it depends on ones standards. I can't even get other
professionals to do things right unless I monitor them very carefully
...like say tires stores.
So if I'm going to put coper-based anti-seize compound on every tiny part
that needs it, or spray lube the parking brake cable adjuster that is
usually badly stuck or rusted anyway ..
and on and on ... a hundred details like that...
it takes a while to do it *really* right and carefully.
and to get SOMEONE else to do that ...
that can be darn tricky.
But perhaps people just want it thrown together so it sort of works , and
they're happy.
I mean is the goal new brake shoes with lots of material on them,
or is the goal the brakes on that of the van are really carefully restored
to being working really well. ?
but please..
do stop by ready to pay 50 cash an hour to work on your vanagon in my shop .
for any job just about ..perhaps not rebuild an auto trans ..
but head gaskets...say ..
sure, and I will make more having you pay me 50 an hour than I would doing
the job myself.
you know ..
I guess the world thinks working on cars is just slapping in the parts.
Based on the poor workmanship I see on many, many cars and vanagons ..
that must be the normal world's standard.
I dont't know about you guys...
but things like tires changed really really fast, so a chunk of rubber gets
ripped off the tire and stuck between rim and tire and then it leaks..
or the tires pressures don't match ...like 4 different pressrues on one set
of four tires ..
or mixed types of lug nuts and the customer wasn't even informed...
or ..get this ..a 14,000 fancy engine covnersion job and the shop didn't
even tell the customer and entire fuel support strap was rusted away and
gone on his high end syncro ..
..IF that is The Standard of workmanship..
then sure..
people can go into shops, do fast semi-sloppy work ..and everyone is happy.
here's another reason it takes a LOT LONGER to fix things really right.
Seldom is 'the worn out thing' the whole story.
take say ...replacing a starter ..
hey, 30 minutes right ?
oh, there's the bushing in the bell housing. Well , we should really do
that.
and since we're working on a starter issue, we should at least visually
inspect the battery ..oh, look at that, no one has been in this battery
compartment for years..
oh ...look,..the bottom of the battery box is getting eaten away with
battery acid ..we really should take that out and clean and treat and paint
that rust, and clean up those corroded battery terminals...
and hey ...it only takes another minute to check chanrging voltage...
and ...that belt squeal..ok...now we have to adjust alternator belt tension.
and since it's only one more tiny step to take the belt of the alt pulley to
spin the althernator to check the bearings, we gotta do that ..
and ...oh right, we need to check the alternator mounting bracket bolts
since that's a known weakness on waterboxer engines ..
and oh look, someone in a hurry used the wrong washer there, and it's all
mushroomed out .
my point is, on these 20 and 25 year old wonderful vans ..
seldom is 'the thing' the whole story ..
not for doing really through good work.
And I know darn well really throough good work is not always being done due
to what I see on vans.
Could anyone here pull out one type of subaru engine to install another and
leave the Ignitor from the old engine just sitting there on the firewall ?
...that's a part that could cost $ 150 new at least, is worth say 40 or 50
used ....and great to have for a spare..
but the tech just leaves the old part hanging there doing nothing ??
oh I get it ..
they are thinking maybe this subaruvanagon owner will come accross another
on the side of the road and they just happen to need that particular unused
Ignitor on that van.
that's what the standard is usually ....
the most result with the least effort.
that means all kinds of sloppy work.
my main point in all this is ..
doing it *really* well and carefully takes time.
And apprantely the common standard is not very high.
you know..
can you do a rear brake job and not at least check that both parking brake
cables are moving smoothly :?
Many people...professions included, do not even think to check that both
cables move at least half smoothly ...
the feel from the handle is the same ..it feels like you putting on the
parking brake..
but if a cable is frozen ....you're only feeling the strething of the cable.
The brake shoes are not moving.
Checking on details like that ..takes time.
heck ...I can't do rear brakes without lubricating the parking brake handle
pivot points and ratchet ..
and I promise you ....not even 5 out of 50 or 100 shops will bother with
that detail.
In their mind ...it's get the rear brake parts on ..
it is NOT ..make sure *everything* about the rear brake system is righ, and
serviced .
If find hundreds of moving metal parts and mechanisms that have never been
serviced or lubed on vangons since the factory ..
so it takes time
it can take LOTS of time to really, really do any job on thise fine old vans
thorughly..
but please..
stop by and let's get to work !
50 cash and hour will be just fine.
lol.
if you want to see bad work ....look at most body and paint shops work ..
it's usualy terrible. ..in the details, like painted wires and exhaust
pipes, or whatever.
typiccal case..
a member in oregon ..a westy, got hit while it was parked. the other guy's
insurance forked over the bucks.
the guy gets the van back ......side marker light ins't working.
he takes that apart ...wasn't even wired
then he finds out the plastic clips that the screws go into , that plug into
the body ...were gone.
now his van orignally had those parts.
the qtr panel the shop got probably had those plastic thingies...
they're probably under a work bench or in the trash at that body shop .
I sold him off a parts van.
that is typical for body and paint shops.
they only make it LOOK right ..
seldom to they actually make it BE right.
though I trust the poster on the trip with the boy shop guy got good work
done.
and sure ..50 an hour you work on your van in my shop , let's get started.
and you'll see to do it really carefully and actually right, takes longer
than you'd think.
scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack R." <jack007@COMCAST.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: Good collaboration with a mechanic?
> Mark,
>
> I've only worked with Mechanic's who agree to this approach. There are a
> lot of good mechanics who are willing, but finding them can be the trick.
> I
> suggest you start with a foreign auto parts store, asking the guys behind
> the counter if they know of any mechanics who fit your specifications.
>
> Then, set up an "interview" process, and "hire" the mechanic based on your
> gut feeling. Start with a smaller task, asking what he or she charges per
> hour to supervise you while you do a brake job on your van. (limited
> quantities of beer supplied while you do the work). Good way to check
> their
> personality. While you do the interview, check out their garage, ask if
> you
> can borrow their tools... do they have air tools?
>
> You have a good plan... and frankly, I've learn a ton with this type of
> relationship. And I've also saved a ton! I did the same thing when I
> restored my 84 Westy with the auto body guy, and now he and his wife are
> joining me and my wife on a cruise vacation next month.
> I typically pay in cash, between $40 and $50 per hour, and pay for all
> parts. They have no outlay of funds, and appreciate cash. If they do the
> bulk of the work, and I help (and what mechanic doesn't appreciate a
> helper), I tend to pay more on the high side of $50 per hour. FOREGET
> ABOUT
> BOOK TIME, BY THE WAY!
>
> I've continue to give these guys referral business, which they also
> appreciate!
>
> This has worked great for me, as I'm pretty mechanical. Most mechanical
> people get intimidated by the task, as the lack of experience in freeing a
> stubborn bolt, or knowing the proper procedures to circumvent a complex
> task
> can lead one to take their van to a local garage for the work to be done
> by
> who knows!
>
> My 2 cents!
>
> Jack R.
> 84 Westy Wolfie (owned and wrenched on since 1987)
> N. of Detroit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Mark L. Hineline
> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 4:29 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Good collaboration with a mechanic?
>
> I'd like to develop a good working relationship with a VW mechanic:
> someone to whom I can trust jobs that I can't or shouldn't do (I live
> in an apartment complex where working on a vehicle is severely frowned
> upon), but who doesn't get his nose out of joint if I do a lot of work
> myself.
>
> Has anyone worked out that kind of relationship?
>
> I'd like to take my Vanagon to San Diego Westy, if that's the sort of
> place that tolerates owner repairs.
>
> Mark
