Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 14:12:07 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Starter Gone?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
re
"Attach it to the positive of the starter'
Do you really mean the main positive battery cable connection at the starter ?
I think you mean what i call 'starter trigger signal' ..
that terminal on the solenoid.
testing for valtage on that wire with key turned to 'start' is ok..
but I don't regard it as a deffenive test at all.
you could have enough amperage and voltage there to show 10+ volts..
but that by itself does not guarantee that there is enough amperage getting from battery, to igntion switch, through the contacts in it, then through the wires.....
suffecient amperage to fire the solenoid.
So I almost never bother with that test.
What is so fast and easy ..
to find out if the starter is working or not ...is connect a Remote Starter Switch directly to the starter..
and it if works..
then you know the problem is somewhere else in the van.
if the stater doesn't work..
you still have to think about battery and cables and those connections of course.
But that's such a good test..
connect remote starter switch ..
and if the starter responds to the old hammer whack ..
it's very easy to do that test using a remote starter switch.
I don't even drive anywhere without this tool in my van, it's that useful.
I just used it trying to get a dead fuel pump to run again ..
super useful tool.
very possible to get a 2 volt loss due to bad cables, connections, or ground cable at front of trans.
Sometimes I even put a dedicated 'always hot' starter button the dash. The stock ign sw. is rather underbuilt.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: craig cowan
To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Starter Gone?
Michael, upon rereading your post and scott pointing out that you have an automatic, it does sound like it's possible that you have an issue with the neutral safety switch.
An easy test that you should perform regardless is this....
Take a volt meter, and some spare wire which I assume everyone just has lying around (right?). Perhaps even throw some terminals on the wire if needed (ALLIGATOR CLIPS!?). Attach it to the positive of the starter and the other too ground. Use these to extend the useable range of the voltmeter so that the voltmeter is visible outside the car (so you're not under the car). Now have someone crank it over (or if your extension cables are really long, and your voltmeter is in the car near the driver, do it yourself).
Are you getting volts?
If you're not getting at least 10 volts or so at the starter when you're turning the key, it's not a starter issue at all (or at least not entirely a starter issue). It could be ignition switch, it could be the neutral safety switch, etc. If you are getting volts, this can help to determine the quality of the volts getting to the starter. If you measure 10 volts at the starter while cranking and 11volts at the battery while cranking, you have a problem in your circuit (either coroded Battery Cable, bad ground on the battery, or bad ground at the starter). Expect "some" loss over the course of 12 feet of wiring, but a 1 volt or so loss (i've seen a 2 volt loss before on bad wiring and grounds!) is huge.
This can at least be a start to testing.
Taking the starter out is easy. It is however, one of those jobs that will likely take you a whole lot longer than you estimate; especially if you haven't done it before. I've done it plenty of times, and it can still easily take me an hour or even two. There's just something about limited throw on a hex wrench, terrible angles for your arms, poor lighting, and corrosion/rust to really slow you down. I'm sure I could do it in 15 minutes if I tried.....
but it always just seems to inspire me to work slowly.
Try it on a syncro sometime.....
that's just not fun.
-Craig
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
Wiggle the shifter.
there's a switch in the console ..
a Neutral Safety Switch ..
allows starting only in Park and Neutral.
Sometimes the switch has trouble making contact.
I have an 86 that does that ..
every once in a while...just need to move or wiggle the shifter a bit.
so try that first.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Sullivan" <sandwichhead@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:42 AM
Subject: Starter Gone?
Good morning Volks. Tried to start the van after getting gas on Thurday
nite and nothing. I have a meter monitoring the batteries and I DO get a
draw on the main battery when I turn the key, but no sound from the
starter. Not a click or anything. Gave it a couple of whacks and still
nothing. I did notice the positive battery clamp was a little loose, but
still nothing after tightening. Recently (over the last 6 months) I have
noticed a small hesitation when starting (felt like a weak starter)but
worked every time. I belieive I have a spare but wanted to ask the
concensus of the group before gettting under there. Main battery has
about
13 at rest and down to 11.75 when I try to crank it.
Will have the starter tested after I get it out. Thanks.
Michael in San Antonio
91GL Weekender AT 2.1L 'Gringo'
