Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 16:24:28 -0500
Reply-To: Mike <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <email@example.com>
From: Mike <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Replace Heads or Engine?
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
Were you aware that the power band for the 16V DOHC engine is all wrong
for use with the Vanagon tranny gearing?
It's one of the worst engines to choose for this conversion. Ask the
folks who've done this one before, it's a well-known issue in the Vanagon
I had originally planned to to this one, myself, and changed my mind on
choice of engine after reading everything I could find on the subject.
If you change the gearing/ tranny, you may be able to find a happy
compromise for that engine.
From: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: Replace Heads or Engine?
> I'll do one.
> I just quote a labor fee for the engine conversion job.
> Usually about $ 3,500.
> and there are parts and expenses on top of that. ...various new parts,
> w. pump and t-stat, and who knows what ...lots of used engines are hacked
> up, missing things, tired head gasket etc. There some farmred out
> welding , hoses ..fluids, and conversion parts from vendors sometimes, or
> diesel vanagon engine mounting parts ...etc...
> and someone has to supply an engine for the project. I like the customer
> supply their engine ..
> I'll help them get a good one . I want them invested in it actually .
> I don't want them thinking 'it's a new car...all I have to do is pay the
> bill and drive it ' ..
> I want them to know that for it work well for them they need to take care
> of it, be half smart about it ...
> lEven done well......they are different than any pure factory stock car.,
> which one should be able to 'just drive' and get fixed anywhere. I want
> them to understand it's a special deal, and takes care and understanding.
> Takes me a long, long time to get them really right. Not making any
> killing money-wise, but it is very rewarding work.....it's art even to me.
> I do turbo diesels, subaru's , inline four gas VW's ..
> they're pretty easy in a way actually - inline four gas VW's . It's the
> fine tuning and elegant construction of say , engine mounting sytem or
> exhasut system that takes time. Or say ..installing guages ...to do a
> job on that takes more than say , 45 minutes, to do it really nice. And
> half the vanagons need many things done to them as well.
> I'm slowly working on one for myself ...87 Jetta 16vavle DOHC 1.8 ..with
> CIS-E fuel injection ..
> 123 hp at 5,800 rpm ...something like that. Doing that at 50 degrees in a
> vanagon. If the CIS doesn't cooperate , I'll run it on Digifant.
> Southern Oregon.
> what fun !
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Hanson" <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 8:42 AM
> Subject: Re: Replace Heads or Engine?
>> You are right, Mark.
>> That is the drawback--either way, ...shops are expensive. I know of
>> that specialize in or even advertise for inline gas VW to Vanagon
>> conversions, in the US anyhow.
>> I said in my post to Anthony..there is no kit like, for example, the
>> Bostig/Zetec. There is no Small Car or Kennady engineering Kit..though
>> does offer an adapter of some sort that I am not familiar with...There is
>> the recent start of an inline list on Google Groups...just getting
>> going..but no big vocal base of knowledgeable experienced swappers like
>> the Subie motors..
>> I don't even know if Tiico still is in business.
>> Using the figures posted for rebuilt WBX motors and heads, however, plus
>> the shop time to exchange the motors, etc..I'd *guess* if you did find a
>> shop with a VW and Vanagon savvy knowledgeable and willing mechanic who
>> wanted the work, you'd spend less having them install an inline and you
>> would have an 'argueably' better motor when done with the conversion. I
>> guessed "1/2 the cost" of the $4000 motor, + remove and replace...using
>> hours and cost of my own recent work to the inline in my van, working as
>> total neophyte without air tools or a hoist or even a good tools
>> putting in a large 'fudge-factor', too..
>> When I post Inline rap, I always get hammered. That's OK...I am going
>> off my own experience and second-hand experiences related to me by other
>> happy (and some few not so happy) inline gas Vanagon people. It's easy
>> say.."That won't work..." and people do say that..but I've found it works
>> pretty well in my case and for most everyone else I know of, too.....
>> I don't really imagine any numbers, Mark. I just guestimate, from my
>> 'backyard jackstand mechanic' experience messing with my van and its'
>> install, that any decent shop could easily match or go under the cost of
>> "remove, rework and replace WBX" with a 'remove WBX, install inline' job.
>> Once that was done, you might expect to have fewer ongoing motor-related
>> Finding a shop to do the work...that seems the hard part...And, if I
>> a shop, myself, I might be reluctant to take on one of these swaps. If I
>> had plenty of other work, work right out of the "Flat Rate" Book, why
>> with something unknown? You gotta pay the rent and 'sure thing' jobs pay
>> the rent...
>> Let's not start with a debate of relative merits of the various engines,
>> though...I'd rather move on to "Tires"...or maybe "which oil is
>> best"...(grin, said in good cheer, grin)
>> Don Hanson
>> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 7:34 AM, mark drillock <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
>>> Don, please list all the shops you know of that will perform a decent
>>> conversion from wbx to an inline VW for the kind of numbers you imagine.
>>> People who do their own conversions can manage it fairly cheaply when
>>> they have the time and skills to do them as well as the time and
>>> inclination to round up all the pieces. The inline 4 is one of the least
>>> expensive ways for self conversions to be done. That assumes you place a
>>> low value on your own time, as many do. Shops on the other hand are
>>> another matter in my experience. They want to get paid!
>>> There have been self converters here with inline 4 gas VW engines since
>>> before I arrived. There would be even more except that a lot of attempts
>>> fail to give happy results within the allotted time. It is harder than
>>> you think.
>>> Don Hanson wrote:
>>>> When I see "these" expense estimates to repair/replace the WBX motors
>>>> compare them to what I've encountered myself or read about from others,
>>>> 'pencils-out' that even starting from scratch, an inline VW is a much
>>>> expensive alternative. Like probably around half price, even the
>>>> time out, including gathering all the diesel van parts needed and
>>>> someone else do the work.