Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:49:09 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Replace Heads or Engine?
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Ha !
'nice cheap conversion' ...
sure..
It's possible., particularly if all the bits were organized so it was very
clear ..
this hose from there, this bracket from over there, etc.
people do these on their own for ........under $ 1,500.
Don's numbers are certainly low ..
300 for his ABA engine I think..
and he can sell the head from it.
the engines are cheap.
in Don's case he has a 5 speed diesel trans ..
those can be hard to find or expensive to get ..
but depending on what you start with, and how creative a person is ..
the cost does not have to be high.
well...
sure . 'on paper' it's take the 300 dollar engine ..
the van, and the right engine mounting parts and cooling system hoses and
'just put them together.'
ahem ....ah ...
I can't seem to do that. Heck..this last engine I just got , I spent a
couple of hours at least taking off busted hacked stuff that didn't belong
on it. Then I spent numerous hours removing and treating and then painting
severe rust on the side of the engine block..
and it needed a timing belt and idler of course ...and it really should have
a new head gasket perhaps ..and a water pump and new t-stat, and the w. pump
housing resealed to the block..
and new rear main seal, new shaft seals on the front of the engine...on and
on like that. .
my point is ...
when I get a used engine, before it is really 'ready' to install, I could
spend a dozen or more hours on it.
Easily, even more. There's damaged stuff to repair from how sloppy
junkyards and vendors are moving them around. It is not 'at all' like the
engine is usually really 'ready' to install. Hardly.
Then there is the van ..
this is why I laugh ..
it's as though this inline four gasser is going into a 'perfect vanagon' ...
take this one I'm doing now ...an 85 GL.
it's got horrible gooey slit crude on everything underneath ...awful stuff,
worse than dealing rust.
Some of that needs to get cleaned off, the rest gets in my eyes when I'm
under there.
Then there's the wasted right rear wheel bearings that need to be done..
and we're putting in a new trans..
and of course that's not part of an engine swap ..
but ..
to make things even 'mostly and pretty right' takes a lot.
And very, very rare is the 25+ year old van that is 'all fine throughout'
and it's just the engine that is tired.
So there is *always* more to it than just slapping in the engine. At least
in my world, to get a good result. I am just incapable of slam-dunk work.
So sure ..
organized well enough ..and not getting distracted by the many other things
a common 25 + year old vanagon needs ...sure ...$ 3K out the door.
Part of it is that I can't do say....a clutch job which is supposedly
perhaps 4 or 45.5 hours and 'just do it.' Seldom do I find where lots of
other associated things need attention.
I can't swap out a clutch without lubing the shift linkage front to back,
adjusting if necessary,
bleeding in new clutch hydrocyanic fluid and so forth....lubing the clevis
pivot on the clutch pedal ..
that is all part of a clutch job to me.
And rare is the vanagon that's really been actually truly taken care of.
The only say ..
lubricated locking gas cap I've ever seen is one I lubed...
or ignition lock cylinder. or , or ,or this, or that etc. etc.
I can't install and engine with a draggy throttle cable that needs
attention ..
I can only do really good thorough work ..
and that takes time. Really ...just preparing the bell housing and
crossshaft and TOB and all that can take me an hour , just that one part of
the trans ..or nearly an hour.
'most thing's are corroded and not very well serviced.
Anyway ..that's how vanagons and engine conversion look to me ..
these beauties are around 25 years old. There are dozens and dozens of
places on them that have never been serviced since the factory ....anyway .
I'm sure my point is clear by now ......lol..
yeah.....show up with your van ..
36 hours later leave with the 300 dollar golf/jetta engine thrown in, and
hand over $ 2,995 and drive off into the sunset happy forever after.
Sorry ....! I just find so many rusted main coolant pipes, for example,
and most vans are missing the air block off plate ( cardboard ) under the
radiator , and so on.
I've never done an engine conversion or installation on any Vanagon that
didn't need numerous other things done to it to support the engine
conversion or installation.
and of course ..if the right version engine was just sitting there pretty
ready to install, and the van was good, and the other needed parts were
right there......it wouldn't take that long or be that hard.
I can spend 8 hours or more on a wiring harness, but they come out right
by golly.
it takes time to do it right is the bottom line.
If I lowered my standards I could do it faster.
I've looked at a guy's tdi exhaust pipe and muffler set up ....
and thought ..wow, that guy spent maybe an hour max hanging that on there...
and I reproduce a turbo version of the stock DV exhaust system, using the
same mounting system ..
and tuck it all up in there nicely , so it sits level and looks right and
the tail pipe is 'just right.' ..
and I'm spending a LOT more time to do it that way.
this one tdi exhaust ...I was impressed all right ..for how affective it
was for how quickly it was made ...and long lasting too. I didn't approve of
the welded on jetta spring header clamps as hooks..welded to the frame with
the bare metal rusted area not being painted ...or how the muffler hung
down, or the dorky big dong of a tail pipe sticking straight down ..but by
golly ..
it worked, and wasn't likely to break. And the customer on that van probably
wouldn't know a nice exhaust system from a crude one ..
anyway ..that's how time goes for me ...takes a while to make things really
nice. It's not worth doing to me, if it's not at least somewhat elegant,
easy to work on, and solid and reliable. That takes longer.
nice to read your note !
what you suggest 'should' be possible for sure.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
'nice cheap' ...
That's hard for me to relate to. And I'm not expensive either.
I'd say I shoot for ..........'very well done, well sorted out, reliable,
and very reasonable cost-wise for the effort invested in it. "
( nearly half of what I do is straightening out things previously done
incorrectly, as well. ) And that takes time too.
----- Original Message -----
From: "mark drillock" <mdrillock@cox.net>
To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: Replace Heads or Engine?
> Hey Scott. You know the ins and outs of the diesel mounting stuff about as
> well as anyone here. How much would you think to charge for converting a
> wbx van to an inline 4 gas engine using diesel bits where possible? Maybe
> you could offer that as a service and have people lined up around the
> block for a nice cheap conversion? Total parts and labor at $2500 sound
> right, like some people say? Or maybe $3000 since you do such nice work?
> The engines are only $300.
>
> Mark
>
> Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>> I just installed one of his 2.2 waterboxer engines ....and his deluxe air
>> type oil cooler kit .
>> No complaints at all, and I'm real picky and demanding . I'd do another
>> one
>> anytime. It was basically perfect in every way.
>>
>> Scott
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Roger VanTill" <motelvw@GMAIL.COM>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 4:05 AM
>> Subject: Re: Replace Heads or Engine?
>>
>>
>>> Check out Chris' motors. I'd spend the $4000 on one of these.
>>>
>>> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=514460
>>>
>>>
