Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 01:47:47 -0600
Reply-To: Steve Schwenk <steve@SYNCRO.ORG>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Steve Schwenk <steve@SYNCRO.ORG>
Subject: Re: [syncro.org] RE: Gear Oil: Opinion/subjective
experience..long.
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Daryl,
Before I headed out on my trip from PA to CA last year, I went by a racing shop where the guy is known for his trannies and gear assemblies. He works
strictly on indy-type cars. I went there to buy SWEPCO. His opinion echoed your speculations/observations. He said Redline would not protect the syncro
R&P adequately or nearly as well as SWEPCO. He thinks Redline is sub-par, at least for high performance applications, based on his own testing (complete
tear-downs after testing with each oil). The redline does not coat and adhere nearly as well, or withstand the loads.
I do not have the knowledge to judge one way or the other, except to comment that his opinion was based on what he saw with his own eyes when from his
testing experiment. He had no doubts. (You seem to be getting similar results from the field.) I sent an e-mail out to the syncro.org list with his
shop's name. If interested in talking to him i could probably dig it up. He could tell you in much greater detail than my memory will permit why SWEPCO
is much better than redline for the syncro transaxle (and esp. the R&P).
Steve
On Mon 06/12/10 7:27 PM , "Daryl Christensen" daryl@aatransaxle.com sent:
> I have been trying to determine the real world reason for some
> transmission
> failures lately that seem to be oil related.
> I am starting to see some serious issues with transmissions rebuilt
> a year
> or two ago that are worn way beyond normal. Granted none of these
> are WBX'er
> motors, but Subie 2.5 & 3.0's, 3.3's and TDi's. In taking apart
> units for
> gearing upgrades or odd failures, I have seen abnormal wear on ring
> &
> pinions, pinion bearings and the mainshaft's 2nd gear teeth
> primarily.
> Some were using Redline MT90 and some Lubrimoly among others. As the
> drivers
> of these rigs are generally not hot rodder's and drive
> conservatively, even
> off road (that's you Bob S.), I suspect it is an oiling issue. Two
> of these
> even had oiling plates installed as well.
> In rebuilds of Porsche 944 and 911 tranny's that are raced weekly
> and using
> Swepco 201, I see broken R&P's from shock loading, but NO tooth wear
> even
> after getting beaten hard and put away wet.
> Now what says me to myself...Are only the non stock motors in heavy
> Syncro
> Westies at risk?? Highway normal usage should not cause such wear
> with good
> synthetic oils.
> Swepco seems to be a better oil for most I am thinking. It is a
> mineral oil
> and can cause some stiff shifting when cold and is $50/gallon.
> Redline MT90 seems to be the best for notchy gear changes and good
> for a
> stockish pass van, esp in colder climates.
> Always thought Lubrimoly was a superb quality oil, but seen some
> with issues
> that can't be explained away lately other than oiling problems.
> Amsoil is said to be a good oil, as is Royal Purple, but I have no
> long term
> evidence any of the above mentioned are better than another with the
> exception of the Swepco. Cost of some oils such as the Lubrication
> Engineers
> stuff at over $25/qt is generally prohibitive for most non racer
> "normal"
> people and also not easily available.
> What's the general consensus here group??? Open to suggestions.
> Anyone do any research on oils or have any personal real world hard
> evidence
> reasons to use one over the other?? Tell us your stories and maybe I
> wont
> have to give so much bad news down the road...
> Daryl of AA Transaxle
> 425-788-4070
> "On the cutting edge of Old technology"
> 86 Syncro Westy with a Zetec in the trunk AND with a Turbo being
> installed
> next week.
> Subject: Gear Oil: Opinion/subjective experience
> Manual transmission, 5sp hooked up to a 2.0liter ABA Jetta motor
> putting
> out (guessing) maybe 140hp. In a low top van with a partial Westie
> interior
> and 14" wheels.
> I recently reworked the driveline of this van, building a more
> powerful
> motor with a custom exhaust, replacing the clutch, doing the CV
> joints,
> trans mount, etc. When I re-installed the tranny the second time
> around
> (don't ask)...I went with Redline MT 40. I have used this before,
> but I had
> been running Swepco 201 right up to the engine swap. I put about
> 1000
> miles on the van(and the MT-90) so far, and after my exhaust system
> was
> finished and the mountings finalized to make everything real nice
> and
> smooth, I could really notice the difference in the gear noise.
> Using the
> Redline, the shifting was a little less smooth, but the lever moves
> easier.
> The Redline feels like what it is....much thinner than the Swepco,
> not so
> "slick" feeling.
> So I drained it again (into a nice clean pan, then put it back in
> the
> bottles for later use somewhere) the Redline MT-90 and re-filled
> with Swepco
> 201. What with my quieter exhaust system (significantly quieter
> and
> smoother than the one I had before the new motor) I can certainly
> feel and
> hear the difference...It just feels 'happier' back there, less
> 'stressed'...less "busy". And while it has only been down to about
> 20f so
> far, I have not felt the expected 'stiff-stick' with a cold gearbox.
> I also
> don't feel the slight hesitation that I did as the syncros worked,
> like was
> the case with that MT-90
> .
> I will be interested to see how my gas mileage is affected, there
> should
> be some difference...I have been getting 23.5 with the MT-90 and the
> new
> 2.0/1.8l hybrid motor. I expect more from the Swepco, especially
> on
> sustained high speed driving. It seems much 'slicker'...
> We'll probably have some comments from the Peanut Gallery now,
> saying...."Oh, you can't use Swepco..it will ______________ your
> gearbox"...but I ran it all last year and the inside of the gearbox
> looked
> immaculate when I had it apart recently...with no deterioration on
> the
> bronze or any ill effects.
> Just saying, as my subjective opinion....All those Porsche guys are
> onto
> sumpthin, running that high dollar dino oil in the gearbox..
> Don Hanson
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