Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 14:40:40 -0600
Reply-To: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Friday fun.. Vanagons on fire
In-Reply-To: <F64E4C16A120A148A007EAAE525AC5162B6FAF0F@TK5EX14MBXC123.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
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A gas type _ best is Halon if you can find it - works better than most
anything else. The issue you get into is 1) trying to cool the source of
ignition or 2) cut the source of oxygen or 3) remove the fuel source.
Take your pick. But a fire in the engine compartment, with the engine
hatch closed, is probably best extinguished by shutting off the source
of ignition by chilling, and simultaneously shutting off the oxygen. An
inert gas like the Halon - or possibly CO2, works. A foam extinguisher
will do the job to, in shutting off the air - but does little in the way
of cooling. Same for a powder extinguisher. A real negative too, with
powder extinguishers is that you have a real mess to clean up if you are
able to save the day. But better a negative to deal with than a lost
vehicle, right? I have seen the powder type extinguishers discharged
into the engine bay of aircraft, and when the engine was started after
some cleanup effort, the engine seized short after startup. The problem?
- the poweder is a grit, and will seize an engine in a heart beat if it
gets into the air intake.
Airplanes have many different approaches to extinguishing fires in
flight, and one is a discharge ring or rings around the engine in the
engine compartment. This consists of hollow piping with discharge ports
located so that when the Fire Extinguisher is triggered from the
cockpit, CO2 cylinders discharge CO2 through those rings and ports into
the cowled engine area. It's pretty effective. Of course if there is a
fire, the engine gets shut down, fuel valves are closed shutting off the
fuel to the area. Depending on the airplane, oil lines can also be
closed to prevent oil from feeding the fire. I don't see why this
principle could not be applied to a Vanagon.
John
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
On 12/18/2010 3:38 PM, Marius Strom wrote:
> So, regardless of the ignition source, it's pretty sobering to see how quickly (3 minutes) the van can go up. I think we're all agreed that this starts in the engine compartment.
>
> One thing I've always wondered is what's the best course of action to slow it down. I noticed in the first video that the hatches and doors are all open - that seems like it'll just let air in easier. I know that closing the car up wouldn't eliminate the fire (there's plenty of ways for air to get into our rides), but has anyone given thought to what the best courses of action are in the unfortunate event it happens to you?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Haynes
> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 9:00 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Friday fun.. Vanagons on fire
>
> Why do we assume that all engine fires start out as a fuel hose problem? I can think of a number of other things to get a fire started. Electrical, especially the alternator, oil leak, extreme overheating of the engine or automatic tranny, etc. Over the years I have seen a number of fuel leaks that did not catch fire. I'm not saying don't maintain the fuel lines but let's not blame them for all fires.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of JordanVw@AOL.COM
> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 10:54 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: friday fun.. Vanagons on fire
>
> more people who forgot to change their fuel lines!
>
>
> _YouTube - T3 Inferno_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pQ2OVWAJ-M&NR=1)
>
>
> _YouTube - furgoneta en llamas_
> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDW4ezE5nN0&feature=related)
>
> _YouTube - furgoneta en llamas 2_
> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEMVZ8pHyfY&feature=related)
>
>
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