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Date:         Wed, 15 Dec 2010 11:37:22 -0800
Reply-To:     Loren Busch <starwagen@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Loren Busch <starwagen@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Was Can you run without coolant...Now How Badly Can You Abuse a
              WBX? (Very long)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I don't think I've told this tale before for several reasons. First harassment and demonstration of my ignorance about Vanagons in the first few years I owned one and second, I don't want to encourage anyone to do the same thing. But since Dave asked the very good question about running without coolant I'm prompted to tell the story now. BTW, I would NOT do the same thing in the future if the circumstances arose again. And this story is not about running with NO coolant. The only message that might come out of this is that maybe our WBX engines are a little more rugged than we might think. And please keep in mind this was long before I discovered this list, didn't find this list until I was driving my current '90 Westy.

I acquired my first Vanagon Westfalia in 1994, an '85 GL, stock 1.9L 4 speed. After a major tuneup by the local VW dealer I'd bought it from it ran pretty well, some minor problems that I now know were probably AFM related. But from day one I had cooling system problems, it just would not handle climbing mountain passes or long idling in traffic, especially in warmer weather. I saw the red coolant light on many, many times as the temp needle rose to near the top. I had the VW dealer work on that several times, even took it home one time and they had not bled the system anywhere near right. And I'd boil over and puke coolant from the overflow tank, always carried a bunch of coolant premix with me. I talked to the shop people at the VW dealership and two other mechanics and always got the same answer: Head gaskets. "Those things are notorious for blowing head gaskets, you need to do the heads". But that just didn't ring true with the symptoms I was seeing and was explaining to the two shops that had worked on the rig. To me it seemed that the cooling system was just not keeping up with the heat load, like the radiator wasn't doing it's job. And I drove that '85 like that until the Spring of 2001! Five trips from Seattle down I-5 to So Cal and up into the mountains to Big Bear and then back to Seattle. For those not familiar with that route there are a couple of nice passes to get over and Big Bear is at about 7,000 feet. How did I do it? With the front and rear heaters wide open and the fans running full blast to provide a margin of additional cooling. How hot did things get? Well, the plastic grill in front of the rear heater melted and sagged somewhere along the line (not kidding). On one trip, as I pulled into Gorman at the top of the Grapevine in California to cool down the switch for the front heater fan had melted and would not turn off. Every year during the time I owned that '85 I made at least one trip, sometimes three or four, up to a location in the Cascade Mountain foothills that requires climbing a very steep, twisty 4,000 feet, most in 2nd gear and a lot in 1st gear. And all of this with the fan in 'propeller mode' and the red light in my face. But, this original 1.9L WBX with about 150,000 miles on it and never opened up, kept getting me from point A to point C without ever having to make an emergency stop at point B on the way. I started having my rig worked on by another mechanic, a good friend of mine that had his own shop. Not a VW expert but a top mechanic with many years of experience. I was still having the cooling system problems and I had him go through the whole system. He did find some leakage problems and questionable hoses and IIRC he replaced the long coolant pipes running from rear to front, I'd had a leak up front on one of those, right where the rubber hoses went to the radiator. And he tested the coolant for exhaust fumes and found none! No evidence of head problems, just as I'd suspected. Among other things he back flushed the radiator and flow tested it, it seemed to be okay. But as I drove it home, less than 10 miles, catastrophic failure, the 'H' pipe had split!! With the work just done the cooling system was now tight! Got it back to him and replaced the 'H' pipe. And as I was leaving his shop my mechanic gave me a strong admonition to "Get that thing to someone that knows Vanagon cooling system!". Got it home, overheating worse than ever. The next day I took it on another test drive, this time longer. And all really went to hell along the way. I got it back home and coolant was coming out of the right side of the engine as fast as I could pour it in. Well, my 1.9L WBX had never left me at the side of the road but it wasn't leaving my driveway on it's own. Shortening this part of the story, I ended up with a new rebuild from NW Connecting Rod, installed by Rudi Schafner at the now closed Schafner Motors here in Lynnwood. And when they fired it up, guess what? It instantly overheated!! So they replaced the radiator and I drove that '85 another 6,550 miles before it was totaled. And made the same trips I've described before with only the temperature rising a little on long, steep mountain passes, no red lights. The problem from day one had been a bad radiator, the cooling system just couldn't keep up with the demand. I'd been tempted to tell the mechanics that that had worked on it "Put in a new radiator" but hadn't done that. And the well intentioned back flush and flow testing on the radiator had apparently just stirred up the 'stuff' in the radiator and made things much worse and that's what brought on the final problem. I"ve since talked to at least two people that say that you can't flow test the Vanagon radiator and get any meaningful results. And oh yeah, the cooling system was so tight that the steam pressure inside the cooling jacket had blown out a freeze plug and that's where the coolant was running out.

So, given the severe abuse I gave that 1.9L WBX over several years, running it hot as hell and getting low on coolant, I have to think that these engines are a little more rugged than we usually give them credit for.

And again, DON'T TAKE THIS AS ADVICE THAT YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH THE SAME STUPIDITY!!! This was running with severe overheating, NOT running with no coolant.

And now back to the regular TBA programing.


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