Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:30:54 -0500
Reply-To: "Peter T. Owsianowski" <pnoceanwesty@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "Peter T. Owsianowski" <pnoceanwesty@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Was Can you run without coolant...Now How Badly Can You Abuse
a WBX? (Very long)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikDU3r4LuQ0PT0SFyuS5SJCeDi1EKqgB9rFHfcp@mail.gmail.com>
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Wow. I freaked out driving our 2.1 up the hill and back into barn with no
coolant once.
I feel a little silly about that now...
Pete
'79 Westy "Aardvark"
'87 Westy "JoesVan"
WWW.Busesbythebeach.com
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 14:37, Loren Busch <starwagen@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think I've told this tale before for several reasons. First
> harassment and demonstration of my ignorance about Vanagons in the first
> few
> years I owned one and second, I don't want to encourage anyone to do the
> same thing. But since Dave asked the very good question about running
> without coolant I'm prompted to tell the story now. BTW, I would NOT do
> the
> same thing in the future if the circumstances arose again. And this story
> is
> not about running with NO coolant. The only message that might come out of
> this is that maybe our WBX engines are a little more rugged than we might
> think. And please keep in mind this was long before I discovered this list,
> didn't find this list until I was driving my current '90 Westy.
>
> I acquired my first Vanagon Westfalia in 1994, an '85 GL, stock 1.9L 4
> speed. After a major tuneup by the local VW dealer I'd bought it from it
> ran
> pretty well, some minor problems that I now know were probably AFM related.
> But from day one I had cooling system problems, it just would not handle
> climbing mountain passes or long idling in traffic, especially in warmer
> weather. I saw the red coolant light on many, many times as the temp
> needle
> rose to near the top. I had the VW dealer work on that several times, even
> took it home one time and they had not bled the system anywhere near right.
> And I'd boil over and puke coolant from the overflow tank, always carried a
> bunch of coolant premix with me. I talked to the shop people at the VW
> dealership and two other mechanics and always got the same answer: Head
> gaskets. "Those things are notorious for blowing head gaskets, you need to
> do the heads". But that just didn't ring true with the symptoms I was
> seeing and was explaining to the two shops that had worked on the rig. To
> me it seemed that the cooling system was just not keeping up with the heat
> load, like the radiator wasn't doing it's job. And I drove that '85 like
> that until the Spring of 2001! Five trips from Seattle down I-5 to So Cal
> and up into the mountains to Big Bear and then back to Seattle. For those
> not familiar with that route there are a couple of nice passes to get over
> and Big Bear is at about 7,000 feet. How did I do it? With the front and
> rear heaters wide open and the fans running full blast to provide a margin
> of additional cooling. How hot did things get? Well, the plastic grill in
> front of the rear heater melted and sagged somewhere along the line (not
> kidding). On one trip, as I pulled into Gorman at the top of the Grapevine
> in California to cool down the switch for the front heater fan had melted
> and would not turn off. Every year during the time I owned that '85 I made
> at least one trip, sometimes three or four, up to a location in the Cascade
> Mountain foothills that requires climbing a very steep, twisty 4,000 feet,
> most in 2nd gear and a lot in 1st gear. And all of this with the fan in
> 'propeller mode' and the red light in my face. But, this original 1.9L WBX
> with about 150,000 miles on it and never opened up, kept getting me from
> point A to point C without ever having to make an emergency stop at point B
> on the way.
> I started having my rig worked on by another mechanic, a good friend of
> mine
> that had his own shop. Not a VW expert but a top mechanic with many years
> of experience. I was still having the cooling system problems and I had
> him
> go through the whole system. He did find some leakage problems and
> questionable hoses and IIRC he replaced the long coolant pipes running from
> rear to front, I'd had a leak up front on one of those, right where the
> rubber hoses went to the radiator. And he tested the coolant for exhaust
> fumes and found none! No evidence of head problems, just as I'd suspected.
> Among other things he back flushed the radiator and flow tested it, it
> seemed to be okay. But as I drove it home, less than 10 miles,
> catastrophic
> failure, the 'H' pipe had split!! With the work just done the cooling
> system was now tight! Got it back to him and replaced the 'H' pipe. And as
> I was leaving his shop my mechanic gave me a strong admonition to "Get that
> thing to someone that knows Vanagon cooling system!". Got it home,
> overheating worse than ever. The next day I took it on another test drive,
> this time longer. And all really went to hell along the way. I got it
> back
> home and coolant was coming out of the right side of the engine as fast as
> I
> could pour it in. Well, my 1.9L WBX had never left me at the side of the
> road but it wasn't leaving my driveway on it's own. Shortening this part of
> the story, I ended up with a new rebuild from NW Connecting Rod, installed
> by Rudi Schafner at the now closed Schafner Motors here in Lynnwood. And
> when they fired it up, guess what? It instantly overheated!! So they
> replaced the radiator and I drove that '85 another 6,550 miles before it
> was
> totaled. And made the same trips I've described before with only the
> temperature rising a little on long, steep mountain passes, no red lights.
> The problem from day one had been a bad radiator, the cooling system just
> couldn't keep up with the demand. I'd been tempted to tell the mechanics
> that that had worked on it "Put in a new radiator" but hadn't done that.
> And the well intentioned back flush and flow testing on the radiator had
> apparently just stirred up the 'stuff' in the radiator and made things much
> worse and that's what brought on the final problem. I"ve since talked to at
> least two people that say that you can't flow test the Vanagon radiator and
> get any meaningful results. And oh yeah, the cooling system was so tight
> that the steam pressure inside the cooling jacket had blown out a freeze
> plug and that's where the coolant was running out.
>
> So, given the severe abuse I gave that 1.9L WBX over several years, running
> it hot as hell and getting low on coolant, I have to think that these
> engines are a little more rugged than we usually give them credit for.
>
> And again, DON'T TAKE THIS AS ADVICE THAT YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH THE SAME
> STUPIDITY!!! This was running with severe overheating, NOT running with no
> coolant.
>
> And now back to the regular TBA programing.
>
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