Vanagon EuroVan
Previous messageNext messagePrevious in topicNext in topicPrevious by same authorNext by same authorPrevious page (December 2010, week 5)Back to main VANAGON pageJoin or leave VANAGON (or change settings)ReplyPost a new messageSearchProportional fontNon-proportional font
Date:         Fri, 31 Dec 2010 00:39:06 -0500
Reply-To:     Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: '91 Vanagon Brake Shoe Question
Comments: To: Jason Swan <jason@SWANSONTHEGO.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <20101230132512.xtzagiav404400gc@webmail.opentransfer.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

One thing about drum brakes is that rarely can they be made right just by changing shoes. There are a number of parts that require inspection and attention to detail is needed to assemble them and have them work correctly.

For starters, unlike disc brakes, both the shoe and drum has a radius that needs to be matched to ensure complete contact of the shoe and friction surface of the drum. Thus the drum has to be measured to make sure it is not worn beyond its limit. 9.98" for the Vanagon. To make matters worse, I have yet to see an aftermarket shoe with the proper lining thickness or material. Most of these shoes have bonded linings of 4 or 4.5mm. The OEM shoe starts with a riveted lining of 6mm. The OEM shoe is also metallic with a friction rating of FG. Unfortunately these shoes are no longer available from VW.

As for spring kits many aftermarket kits have the wrong hold down springs/pins. These are also soon to be NLA from VW.

There is an option though to help with the shoe matching. The lower shoe rests actually consist of three pieces. The "forks" the shoes actually sit on can be removed (torch) and shimmed out. Usually 2-3mm can be added under each rest. This will make the bottom of the shoe contact the drum and compensate for the VW design where the adjuster and cylinder are both on top.

As for the cylinders, the originals had a spring that pushed the pistons out against the shoes. ATE is the only cylinder I know that retains this feature (usually). I have gotten some ATE that didn't. Anyway, without this spring the pistons can get sucked back and require pushing out to contact the shoes. This gives that need to pump symptom.

While inspecting, you need to carefully inspect the brake cables. Look carefully at the outer jackets. Any sign of breaking, twisting, rust through etc. means they need replacing.

Now for adjusting. The handbrake cables get adjusted before the drums go back on and never try to adjust them afterwards. Order of adjustment is:

Assemble brakes both sides but leave brake cables off. Adjust top adjuster to just take up slack, do not push shoes out. Be sure to take up the slack of the adjuster lever spring or just leave it off for now.

Note how hand brake levers now swing. Install cables on lever hooks. Adjust cable to just take up the slack where the lever pushes on the adjuster rod. Do not tighten enough to move that rod. Make sure both sides are even. Install and remaining springs and the drums. Using a medium screwdriver through hole in backing plate turn adjuster until shoes just rub drum. Hit brakes a few times to center and adjust again. Adjusters actually work from using the foot brake, Not the handbrake.

The shoes will need to wear into the drum to fully feel right and provide a firm pedal. Proper adjustment confirmed by handbrake lever needing 4 clicks to drag and 8 clicks to really set brake. Yes on Westys driver's seat does not swivel if brake lever is up.

Hope this helps, Dennis

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Jason Swan Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 2:25 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: '91 Vanagon Brake Shoe Question

Hi all,

I just found the list after quite a few years with my Vanagon.  I've managed to muddle my way through most maintenance issues, but got stumped recently.  I replaced my rear brake shoes and wheel cylinders.  The cylinders were shot, and I did the shoes because I had everything apart.  Anyway, after replacing the shoes, I bled the lines, and now I have to pump the brakes a few times before I get good braking.  In fact, the brakes act like they aren't adjusting at all.  No hand brake friction at all, and the brakes need to be pumped each time.  I did clean everything with brake cleaner and a wire brush when I had it apart, and I'm reasonably confident that the self-adjusting mechanism should work... 

Anyway, since I don't have a ton of time, I took the van to a recommended euro-auto mechanic who seemed to know what he was talking about.  After first telling me that it needed new brake shoes because

they were down to the metal ("funny" I said, "as the brake shoes have

less than 15 miles on them..."), then telling me I had the brake shoes in the reverse positions (right shoe on the left, and vice versa), he then told me that the shoes were improperly constructed because the brake pads on both shoes are equal.  He tells me there is supposed to

be a short side and a long side.  If not, then the brakes won't work.

I bought the shoes at the local Advance Auto parts.  I don't think

they were all that expensive.  And, to be honest, after looking at the old brakes (which both had shorter, but equal length, pads on the shoe) I can't see how 1" less pad on the bottom of the shoe can affect the brakes.  But, this guy swore up and down that that was the problem.  I didn't have him do my brakes, as I had completely lost confidence in him.  But, before I get in there and see what else could be the problem, I wanted to ask y'all if there is truth in this.  Do I need to go find some more brake shoes; a set with a short side and a long side?

Thanks in advance!

-- Jason Swan 1991 Vanagon


Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main VANAGON page

Please note - During the past 17 years of operation, several gigabytes of Vanagon mail messages have been archived. Searching the entire collection will take up to five minutes to complete. Please be patient!


Return to the archives @ gerry.vanagon.com


The vanagon mailing list archives are copyright (c) 1994-2011, and may not be reproduced without the express written permission of the list administrators. Posting messages to this mailing list grants a license to the mailing list administrators to reproduce the message in a compilation, either printed or electronic. All compilations will be not-for-profit, with any excess proceeds going to the Vanagon mailing list.

Any profits from list compilations go exclusively towards the management and operation of the Vanagon mailing list and vanagon mailing list web site.