Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 23:20:55 -0500
Reply-To: Jonathan Poole <jfpoolio@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jonathan Poole <jfpoolio@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Front Spring install
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
<a.robinson.lists@GMAIL.COM>Hello Aaron,
I replaced the front springs on my vanagon westy a few days ago and can
provide some information on this subject for you. My van is an '83 westy
that runs stock sized tires and that is usually somewhat loaded (tools,
camping equipment, food, water, spare propane tank, house batteries, etc.).
The front of my van was a bit low for my tastes, the drivers front was
noticeably lower and the front end was too soft in cornering and braking.
I installed moog 5660 springs up front and added 3 layers of cutting board
to the springs in the back. The van sits almost level (touch higher in
front) and the ride change was definitely noticeable. I added the cutting
board lift long before the front springs so the only change that I made this
past week was the front springs. On their own, the difference from just the
front springs was big. The van drives much better. I'm impressed by the
change and really glad that I made it. It is similar to the change that is
experienced when your front tires are really low for a while and then you
air them up (similar but different in some important ways). Handling is
more sure and cornering etc. takes less effort. The difference with
stiffening the springs vs airing up the tires is that you don't get the
increased edginess and harshness that hard tires bring. My front tires are
properly inflated so they take the edge off of a lot of the small bumps
etc. Now that the new front springs are in the ride is stiffer but it isn't
really any harsher. Part of this is that the increased stiffness from the
stock springs to the 5660's isn't too dramatic. I'm guessing that if you
put really stiff springs up there (or took the springs out altogether) that
you would get a really harsh ride. In any case, the van now sits level and
drives better without sacrificing comfort so I'm really happy with the
change.
The Moog 5658's are a bit shorter than the 5660's I think so you may not
need to worry with raising the back end of your van after changing the front
springs. If you need to raise the rear adding a few layers of cutting board
is cheap and really easy so I wouldn't worry about it. Get the front done
and then decide if you need to address the back. You could also buy new
rear springs or something but cutting board slices are cooler (ha ha).
Concerning the work involved, my replacement technique was not by the book
and may have been different than what you will want to follow (listen to
anything I say at your own risk, etc. etc. and other disclaimer logic). I
had the springs in hand but no plan so went in taking the fewest parts off
that I could until the old springs came out, then put the new ones in. The
only idea that I did have in advance was to get some sturdy but small
compression/ratchet straps in case I wanted to compress the springs a bit
for removal/install.
I ended up using those compression/ratchet straps that I picked up at
Wal-mart to compress the old and new springs on removal/reinstall. They
were rated at something like 1300 lbs per strap so I figured that two
carefully mounted and not overly tight would be safe. The biggest risk that
I saw was if they were slip off of the spring which could be very dangerous
depending on where the spring is and parts of your body are when the slip
occurs. I used strips from a soft rubber sheet in between the webbing and
the springs, aligned the straps carefully and don't think that I was in
danger of slippage. I also had two straps in place though if one slipped
the other may have followed. If you use ratchet straps that aren't strong
enough they may break/fail and the results could be similarly painful.
My removal work-flow could be summarized like:
- chock up wheels on the side that you will not be lifting
- remove wheel/lift tire - I used a floor jack since I needed to go up
and down numerous times.
- put a solid block under the frame in case the van falls off the jack
(keep it there throughout work as needed, especially when you are under the
van/wheel-well, imagine getting crushed in there and you should be motivated
to be really careful)
- remove the shock - (let me know if you need help on this)
- remove the drop-link (name?) that connects the sway bar to the lower
control arm (so that lower control arm can move further down when needed)
- jack the van up high and put a block under the lower swing arm then
lower the van onto the block and compress the spring with the vans weight.
(remove block under frame until you are ready to get back under the fender,
then put block back under frame;) etc. )
- with spring compressed carefully/thoughtfully place the compression
straps around the springs. Do so in a way that covers as many coils as
possible vertically, that won't slip and that won't get hung up when you
remove the spring.
- lift the van back up a little until the spring is loose in it's
position - (reblock frame)
- turn the steering wheel all the way to the left if you are working
drivers side (or opposite for passenger side) in order to give yourself as
much slack on the brakeline as possible. Alternately remove the brakeline
and plan to rebleed front brakes (shouldn't be necessary to disconnect/bleed
but may be different on your van)
- remove the two allen bolts that hold the upper ball joint to the upper
swing arm
- raise the van until the block under the lower swing arm can be removed.
(reblock frame)
- push the upper swingarm up and out of the way
- push the lower swingarm down as low as you can and be careful with the
brake line/hose. You can turn the spindle/knuckle in a way that prevents
stretching of the brake line and that allows the swingarm to drop low enough
to then pull the spring out.
I may have left out some steps but that should be most of what I did. It
was really straightforward and if needed you could do this really quickly.
I took my time and it still didn't take too long. Of course rusty bolts or
similar could add big delays.
Installation was the reverse, but in your case you will want to replace the
ball joint and whatever else needs it. One thing that you should do at this
point is cleanup, inspect and paint/grease/whatever the end of the drop-link
from the sway bar. This end is known to rust through and break so check it
for too much rust and if it looks good protect it from more rust in the
future however you deem best.
In all changing both springs took 2 or 3 hours for me at most. I don't
recall but I think I put it in an email to the list just after I did the
switch so search from last weekend or earlier this week for my email and you
can get more info on the switch.
Hope that helps,
Jonathan Poole
'83 AC Westy
> Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 15:40:21 -0800
> From: Aaron <a.robinson.lists@GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Front Spring install
>
> Hello all.=20
>
> I have some questions regarding our '87 Westy. I'm about to be =
> replacing a ball joint that's failed - which I've done that before on =
> another van and it wasn't too bad. I've ordered the parts and it made me =
> start thinking of what else might help the soft-ish front end. Van =
> drives well aside from the bad ball joint and a bit more roll than I'd =
> like while cornering. Tires are good, shocks are Bilstein HD all the way =
> around and the rear has been evened out with .75" spacers=20
>
> A friend mentioned that he had some moog 5668 springs that he got and =
> never installed. They are cheap ($50-ish) and stiffer than stock. I =
> didn't find much in the vanagon archives, but thesamba has a number of =
> threads and there are a few mentions of the 5660's and 5658's.=20
> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3D321336&start=3D40
>
> It seems like it would lift it a little. Not a huge deal. Springs look =
> stiffer which is certainly some of what I want. Unfortunately I would =
> say that I know little to zero about what makes a van ride and drive =
> well.=20
>
> My questions would be:=20
> What does replacing the springs entail? Special tools/beer/friends/or???
> Would this be made easier during a ball joint replacement?
> If major disassembly is required, are there other parts that =
> should/could be replaced?=20
> Any ideas on what a shop would charge? Is this something that might be =
> easier if they do it?
>
> Most importantly...
> Would something like this potentially be a functional improvement in =
> that it stiffens up the front end without having large drawbacks for =
> round town/highway driving? Or, would this be the wrong approach?
>
> Thanks for your input!
> Aaron=20
> '87 Westy
>
