Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 14:29:04 -0500
Reply-To: Rowan Tipton <uther@DRAGONHOME.ORG>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Rowan Tipton <uther@DRAGONHOME.ORG>
Subject: Re: VW Van Profiling
In-Reply-To: <718836.20311.qm@web161402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Hummm,
I'm an old (66) white hippie complete with long (gray) hair and
beard. My sometimes roommate Michael is an old (57) black hippie
complete with long (graying) dread locks and (sometimes) beard). When
I'm alone i've never been pulled over . My license is also clean - no
tickets in the last 35 years or so.
When I'm with Michael we've been pulled over lots of times. I haven't
kept count so I can't say how many but a lot. No tickets resulted and
no searches. They did request to search the van a couple of times but
I declined permission and nothing came of it. You can draw your own
conclusions as to why I get pulled over driving the same van when I'm
with Michael and not when I'm alone or with my wife. For what it's
worth all of this happened in Tennessee where I live.
I did once get pulled over and hassled near the Mexican border while I
was in Texas with my adult (half indian) daughter. Things went so
badly I had to call my lawyer in Tennessee, he called a lawyer in
Texas and we waited for two hours for him to get to us. About 1,000
cops and border patrol agents, my daughter, the lawyer and I then
spent another couple of hours before they let us go. They never did
get a search warrant and never searched the van ('71 Westy with limo
tint and curtain behind the seats) so you couldn't see what (or who)
was back there - actually no one was.
r
On Jan 7, 2011, at 12:48 PM, brady wrote:
> Ha Lets see
> I'm black.
> Male.
> Dread Locks down to my waist.
> I grew up in a very rich very white area of which I'm neither.
> I've been driving Vanagons since 1991.
> I'll keep this short as I have alllllll kinds of stories for days!
> I've been pulled over 178 times to date! No exaggeration!
> My Lic is clean I have no tickets.
> I think a large part for me not getting tickets is when I get pulled
> over
> keeping my hands where the cop can see them on the top of the
> steering wheel.
> Not moving around till they come to the window which is already
> down, then when
> they ask for my papers I then tell them I'm going to reach for my
> wallet which
> is in my front right pocket.
> By this time they are confused because I don't smell of weed or
> cigarettes ( I
> don't smoke)
> When I speak I sound like I'm rich and white ( cause that's what I
> grew up
> around) not like say a black guy from the city.
> And then when I open my wallet I have a NYS EMT badge from when I
> was a EMT
> there for 5 years they see this and then they are further confused
> by the fact
> that I'm kind of like them or folks they work closely with.
> So all of this said they just usually let me go or give me a written
> warning.
> Now I have all kinds of stories from them putting loaded 9mm to my
> head or
> telling me that they are " going to kick my ass"
> I look at these as good stories because my brains are still in my
> head and I
> didn't get my ass kick so nothing bad happened other than haveing a
> loaded 9mm
> put to my head. But there oh so many more stories any time I meet
> any of ya
> around a camp fire I'd love to share'em.
> Brady
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jonathan Poole <jfpoolio@GMAIL.COM>
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 12:16:23 PM
> Subject: VW Van Profiling
>
> Warning: Long email/rant following....
>
> It's happened again, the experience that starts as no surprise and
> then
> becomes frustrating as I wait to get my drivers license back. By
> the time
> the cop is back to my van to apologize for the inconvenience I'm a
> mixture
> of understanding, pissed, and frustrated. Today the cop confessed
> the the
> vehicle that I drive is a big part of why he tail-gated me for a few
> miles
> and then pulled me over. "It had a lot to do with it" was his
> answer when I
> asked if my vehicle was why I got special attention from him today.
>
> A few ways that I've modified my behavior at least partially because
> of this
> re-currance:
> - Wearing a collared shirt, which I have done exclusively for years
> now.
> - Keeping my hair short, which I started doing after picking up 3
> seat belt
> violations in a short period, I know I should always wear my
> seatbelt but
> the second and third were in situations where I still would likely
> neglect
> to do so (parking lot hopping essentially))
> -Keeping my van in great condition (recently waxed, was washed
> yesterday,
> shiny/clean/straight etc.)
> -Keeping all registration/insurance current, my record clean,
> getting no
> tickets (except for the seatbelt violations) etc.
>
> None of these appear to have made the difference. I did notice an
> improvement in how things go after getting rid of long hair and
> moving to
> collared shirts only. They may still pull me over but I haven't
> gotten a
> ticket of any type since making these changes.
>
> I've been driving VW vans almost exclusively since the early/mid
> 90's and
> none of this started until 5 or 6 years ago with my Vanagon
> Westies. In my
> younger years, while driving smoking/rattling/leaking bays and
> splits there
> may have been a few laws broken, or at least bent, and I didn't
> worry about
> the appearance of my van or myself yet I don't recall being pulled
> over and
> know that I didn't get any tickets. There were a few road-block
> close calls
> but they all worked out fine (miraculously). One funny one included
> my van
> overheating and dying in a cloud of smoke while I was in a late-
> night, party
> targeting, road-block. My van wouldn't restart and we had been
> cleared to
> go so everyone stumbled out of the van to push us off the road. I
> wasn't
> intoxicated but when my friends stumbled out of the back of the
> Westy to
> push one of them fell over and had to be helped back into the van.
> It was
> an odd scene, pushing my smoking van off the highway amid the flashing
> lights and then sobering up as the van cooled and we watched lots of
> our
> friends go through the road-block with some being ticketed etc.
>
> Does anyone else get extra attention from the police? I'm doubting
> that I'm
> the only one but it could be the part of the country that I spend
> most of my
> time in? Most or all of these incidents where I've been pulled over
> for
> little/nothing have occurred in North Carolina or Tennessee as I
> recall. I
> rarely see VW vans on the road in this area so maybe it is a factor
> of my
> standing out more coupled with a vigilant police force? I'm
> actually glad
> to know (with confidence) that they are out there keeping an eye on
> things
> (VW vans at least, ha ha). My biggest complaint is how long it
> takes for
> them to run my background check (or whatever they do back there
> while I
> wait). Maybe technology will improve and this will become a faster
> process
> in the future. For the record North Carolina and Tennessee are good
> states
> and good places to spend time. The cops are usually friendly as they
> interrupt my travels and I don't ever worry about needing to pay
> bribes or
> other things that may happen in other parts of the world.
>
> O.K.,, thanks for the list therapy. I started typing this a few
> minutes
> after being pulled over and am no longer pissed or frustrated. I'm
> glad it
> was a Friday and I could share this with the list and move on (until
> it
> happens again).
>
> Jonathan Poole
> '83 AC Westy
I remain, as always
YrLyl&ObdntSrvnt,
r
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