Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 11:02:23 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Starter/ground mystery-88 GL 4sp
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re
Alternately: is there any reason not to just install a ground point in the
engine bay that is wired directly to the neg. battery terminal, bypassing
the chassis ground?
sure, you can add all the ground cables and wires you want.
there's no such thing as 'too good ground connections.'
needless to say, the two most important ones associated with the
engine/transmission are .......
the main one at the front of the trans ...to the frame there. Those can
deteriorate , corrode etc.
The current flow in the ground connections is not very large, except during
starter cranking ....
which is why you want that nice fat ground cable there working nicely and
properly.
And with vangons' nice ground clearance, it's not even hard to get under
there and re-do it.
Nice clean shiny metal, perhaps dielectric grease etc.
the next most important one is the one on the left cylinder head ...going to
the body on the left side.
Those can corrode easily too, but not that hard to fix.
one good trick to help ground connections is to get some of those 'star'
lock washers...like with 8 or 10 sharp points on them. You put that under
the ground cable ...like between cable and thing you're grounding it to.
Those points dig in and really help make a good connection. Learned this
trick from a factory installation ..tail light grounds on a 1970 Renault 16.
Been doing that ever since I noticed that back in the 70's. Works just
bomber.
if you've ever cranked an engine on the starter with nothing but the
throttle cable for a ground ...
it's fun to see the throttle cable glow red hot. So make sure ....good
grounds everywhere.
the small ground wires on the left head are for fuel injection and ignition.
You can not clean and tighten and re-do ground connections too much.
so sure, add another ground wire if you want. But also fix the stock
original ones. They work quite well when maintained. Btw ....I recommend
just stray down the entire engine with WD-40 once in a while..
not inside the alternator ..but everything else...every wire, every metal
and rubber part ..
coil and spark plug wires etc......WD-40 is good for all that stuff...at
least in my last 30+ years experience.
That stuff can save your life it's so useful.
might try this sometime with a ground connection - measure the voltage drop
across it.
Ideally we want all say 12 volts in a 12 volt DC circuit to be used by the
device, the consumer, the bulb or whatever..and zero volts are dropped in
that circuit by the wires, switch, grnd point etc.
Of course each has a little resistance ..so perhaps only 11.5 volts are
used by the consumer or device.
To check how much voltage is being dropped across a ground point, energize
the circuit.
Put your voltmeter on millivolt scale and connect the clips to each side of
the grnd point.
You want to see no more than 300 millivolts being dropped or consumed
across that ground point, as a general rule. If it's higher than that
....clean and fix that ground point.
I haven't ever tried it with a ground connection that's carrying starter
current ...but I could imagine enough resistance on a bad one that a whole
volt is being used there, rather than by the starter .
Corrosion is a major enemy of our 20 + year old beauties. I wish we had a
6 inch deep trough of WD-40 to drive through in rough
environments.....coming to and from home. That would sure help !
Electrical contact can be illusive. I've seen a million times in cars where
two pieces of metal that are supposed to conduct, are clearly touching each
other ..yet not making contact. Anyway ..clean them grounds and make sure
they're working really well ! And in oddball cases I add redundant ground
wires sometimes.
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Sutton" <msutts@EARTHLINK.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:41 AM
Subject: Starter/ground mystery-88 GL 4sp
> Hi Folks,
>
> Getting the van back on the road after a long time mothballed (i.e. parked
> down by the river), and having some starter issues. Here's the facts:
> -new battery (12.5 v at rest)
> -starter rebuilt in the last 2 yrs
> -connections to starter cleaned
> -at the turn of the key, fuel pump audible, but no action from the
> starter.
>
> In a desperate "try anything" moment, I took my jumper cables and ran one
> leg from the negative battery terminal to the engine bay, clamping onto
> the
> metal fin that guides the accelerator cable. The van starts immediately.
>
> I understand that this is a ground problem. But where? Do I just do them
> all? Another clue: When the van was running, I measured the voltage at the
> battery, and it was hovering around 12.8v. I my experience, this seems a
> little low: I normally see 13.5v when the engine's running.
>
> Alternately: is there any reason not to just install a ground point in the
> engine bay that is wired directly to the neg. battery terminal, bypassing
> the chassis ground? Seems like a win for all systems (starter, FI, etc)
>
> Hope you're all well,
>
> Matt Sutton
> 78 GL
