Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 00:26:00 +0000
Reply-To: brett rueff <rueffy@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: brett rueff <rueffy@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hard shifting - clutch mount bracket?
In-Reply-To: <03e401cbb156$2f3e7fc0$6401a8c0@PROSPERITY>
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Scott/Zoltan/Daryl.
Great suggestions thank you all. I spent the morning monkeying around with it again.
Scott. The forward braket is in place on the slave cylinder. My clutch pedal engages mid stroke - it seems like there is plenty of "spare" pedal after the engagement point, so I don't suspect that. You also had a good point about shifting with the engine off - I would still describe it as "notchy/grabby" with the engine off so that leads us to linkage most likely. Also the short shift and shift handle extension were the magic of the PO....im considering taking them off - but i've never driven a van without one - I might borrow a friends and see what its like first! I have also had the shift lever off as you describe as part of the grease the ball and cup arrangement - it seems to fit on nicely in the appropriate position.
Darly - I am already at the limit of the travel in the direction you describe. Despite my pushing and holding there was nothing to be had in that direction. Thanks for the suggestion.
Zoltan - Tried turning the shaft between half and one turn im either direction. Couldn't get it to run smoother so just put it back the way it was. I think I will pay you a visit as Im planning to be in the Seattle area....will send you an email on the side.
Well....thanks for the suggestions. Im going to admit defeat for now and let it sit for a while and ponder it a bit more. thanks for all the suggestions.
Brett
> From: scottdaniel@turbovans.com
> To: rueffy@HOTMAIL.COM; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Hard shifting - clutch mount bracket?
> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:09:57 -0800
>
> hi.
> eyeball your slave bracket while someone steps on the clutch pedal.
> it shouldn't move or flex much at all.
>
> is the forward support bracket for it in place ?
> people leave those off sometimes...that will lead to flexing and eventually
> cracking of the slave bracket.
>
> **** first thing to determine is ...
> does it shift fine with engine off ?
> if it shifts fine that way, but not with engine running ..
> then you start to wonder if the clutch is disengaging cleanly ..
> as in bad pilot brg ( common ) ...flexing slave bracket,
> lost motion somehow/somewhere, weak hydraulics etc.
>
> how far off the floor does the clutch pedal have to be before van starts to
> move.?
> should be around 2 1/2 inches...
> if it's less than that ......think of the hydraulics and the whole
> mechanical aspects of the clutch system ...
> OR ..
> just a draggy pilot bearing will give that symptom ......as far as pressure
> plate disengagement is concerned ....the hydraulics and everything else
> could be doing their job , but the pilot brg is still preventing clean
> disengagement. Not a diagnosis at all...just something to consider. Usually
> pilot bearings are just 'blown out' ..like no rollers left....it might cause
> other clutch problems ..but they are not 'draggy' with no rollers left in
> it.
>
> if you determine that the clutch is very cleanly and completely disengaging
> ..then you think all about linkage. ..or syncro's.
> I just had one .....( 1.9 TD diesel engine in 85 GL with newly rebuilt
> trans ) ..stiff shifting in 3rd and 4th I think..I lubed and adjusted at the
> shifter plate at the base of the shifter..lubed everywhere..
> didn't change a lot. Finally I decided to loosen the bracket on the side of
> the trans for the shift linkage and retighten ...like let it jiggle into
> 'the right place' ..tighten it back down That fixed it perfectly , just that
> one step.
>
> the plastic parts in the base of the shifter ... I find those getting tired.
> I also find a lot of slop in shift linkage people may not even notice .
> is there much slop in your shifter ?
> the pattern should be pretty clearly defined, without fore-aft free movement
> of the shift knob..
> or left right free movement. not over half an inch say.
>
> I don't believe in short shift kits at all.
> if it was a van I just bought ..and there was an issue with shifter
> function..
> and it has a short shift kit and a lever extension ..I'd get those off
> pronto !
> The stock system is nigh perfect.
>
> and besides....if you put in a short shift kit, but then you extend the
> lever at the top ..
> there's no net gain.
> furthermore ...shifter extensions that turn ...or have an angle to them ..
> when you push down and go for reverse ........if it's the bent back
> style...you are adding a bit of twist to the shift lever..or can ..all of
> which helps wear out good stock shift linkage.
>
> and a short shift kit adds effort of course ...
> though the extension will negate some of that increased effort..
> but I'd turn that back to stock immediately.
> Seriously ..almost all aftermarket hot rod stuff has a downside. or it's
> harder to work on, or something not as good as stock ....usually that's the
> case.
>
> make sure the lever on the side of the trans is held tightly onto the
> splined shaft it sits on ..sometimes those get loose. Not likely ..but easy
> to check.
>
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "brett rueff" <rueffy@HOTMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 8:51 PM
> Subject: Hard shifting - clutch mount bracket?
>
>
> Im trying to diagnose hard shifting in a 91 Vanagon Manual with short shift
> kit and shifter extension handle. Tranny would have less than 30,000 miles
> on it from reputable list rebuilder. I've hit the archives hard and am not
> having much luck doing past fixes.
> 3rd and 4th are consistently smooth shifting - not butter smooth, but pretty
> comfortable. 1st and 2nd seem to be the problem child - worse downshifting
> than upshifting. 2nd has some resistance and can sometimes give a small
> clunk going in, and can be a bit "sticky" not wanting to come out. I have to
> be going quite slow to downshift from 3rd to 2nd. 1st can only really be
> engaged after coming to a complete stop (this may be normal?)
> Pumping the clutch didn't really make a difference and the slave cylinder
> looks near new - I guess it was done by the PO.
> So far I have done 3 things. Bled slave cylinder - no change. Then switched
> to MT-90 redline which made a small improvement. Also greased and lubed
> inside the shifting box above the spare tire, the shaft bushing on the rear
> arm and the ball and cup on the shift lever. Both had a small amount of
> play before greasing. Also made a small improvement, but that sticky second
> is still there. Also tried playing with the clamp adjustment using the
> bently 23mm block method and then just tweaking in and around the area - no
> real change. Im not opposed to spending the $$$ to R&R all the common
> failure points on the shift linkage - but I would have hoped greasing them
> would have made a substantial improvement to let me know I was on the right
> track. The vendors also seem to describe the replacements as curing "vague"
> shifting, but I wouldn't call what I have vague - its more like
> notchy/clunky/grabby.
> During the clutch bleed as part of this process I noticed the ring on the
> mounting bracket that slips over the clutch arm moves in and out under the
> clutch pressure. The whole clutch bracket is moving which is probably
> "stealing"some of the clutch throw. Could that be it? Is there supposed to
> be a circlip or something to stop this movement. I made a video where you
> can see the movement:
> http://www.vimeo.com/18651753
> CheerioBrett
> Also - anyone know a good vanagon mechanic in the greater vancouver area?
> Im tempted to just take this in as I spent 8 hours on it today and dont seem
> any closer. Im even thinking of a trip to Seattle to see Zolly or Daryl.
> =
>
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