Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 17:21:58 -0600
Reply-To: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Sound deadening and door speakers
In-Reply-To: <F27280EC23FF4558BDB312DF052013DA@HUNDTDESKTOP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I worked on some really big government roofing projects on the Kodiak
Coast Guard Air Station on Kodiak Island, Alaska. It has been a long
time ago, but I remember well the use of the ice and water shield, and
what was installed was slick as glass. Had to be really careful working
on it because it was so slick. But it did the job for the roofs. The
smooth version is what I would use as the sound deadener, were I to go
that route.
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
On 1/16/2011 4:31 PM, Don Hundt wrote:
> Mike,
> I am a builder, I have seen and used ice and water shield products
> with and
> without the granules. As explained by my roofer, the product with the
> granules is typically used on a steeper roof or in wet conditions, so
> that a
> roofer who steps on the product will not take a quick ride to the ground.
> The non-granular stuff is pretty slick, especially with a bit of water or
> snow on it. I would imagine that either would work about the same as
> sound
> deadening, but the smooth product may be better in a multi layered
> application where one layer would have to stick to the one beneath.
> YMMV,
> Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike" <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 1:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Sound deadening and door speakers
>
>
>> That's funny, it does have a granular surface and it says "Ice and water
>> shield" right on the package.
>> I installed 2 (yes 2!) rows of it before shingling my roof for extra
>> coverage, but I still have around 100 lbs
>> of it left to use on something else. That roll is so heavy I loath
>> having
>> to move it for any reason.
>> So, in my shed it sits, until I need it someday (along with tons of
>> other
>> stuff, including old VW parts galore!).
>>
>> Mike B.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bill Glenn
>> Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 1:32 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Sound deadening and door speakers
>>
>> On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 23:09:23 -0500, Mike <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET> wrote:
>>
>>> Sound deadening butyl is plain, but ice and water shield has gravel
>>> (like
>>> asphalt shingles do) on top.
>>> I have a bunch here from my home addition, but didn't try it due to
>>> this
>>> fact. It's heavy.
>>
>> Mike,
>> If the product you used for your addition has a granular surface,
>> it's not
>> Ice & Water Shield, which is a specific trademarked product of W.R.
>> Grace
>> &
>> Company, which I think was first to market with this type of roofing
>> underlayment about thirty years ago; there are now other products on the
>> market. Using the term "ice and water shield" as a generic
>> descriptor for
>> any self-adhesive roofing underlayment could cause confusion because
>> other
>> products will likely have different properties.
>>
>> Ice & Water Shield is a cross-laminated, high-density polyethylene sheet
>> backed with a rubberized asphaltic adhesive, and is a great product for
>> its
>> intended use as a roofing underlayment. While it may look like some of
>> the
>> sticky-backed sound attenuation products, and utilize some ingredients
>> from
>> the same chemical families, the formulations are significantly
>> different.
>> That is not to say that it couldn't be used for sound attenuation, since
>> adding mass in any form to, say, a door panel, would likely dampen
>> vibration and thus reduce noise (or at least change the frequency).
>>
>> However, when deciding whether to use it inside your van, it may be
>> instructive to note some of the manufacturer's stated limitations for
>> the
>> product when used for roofing underlayment:
>> 1. "Due to its slight asphaltic odor, do not apply where the membrane is
>> exposed to interior living space."
>> 2. "Certain product applications are prohibited in hot desert
>> areas in the southwestern United States." I should think that the
>> interior
>> of a door or body section exposed to the hot summer sun, anywhere, would
>> easily reach temperatures higher that those outdoors in the southwestern
>> desert.
>>
>> Certainly there are those who have used Ice and Water Shield for sound
>> attenuation without problem, however, if you do have a problem, be aware
>> that it will likely be impossible to remove the stuff once applied and
>> then
>> baked on to the sheetmetal of your van.
>>
>> Also note that sound dampening only requires that a portion of an
>> area be
>> covered to dampen vibration, with a good result for the money spent.
>> Sound
>> insulation requires everything that can be covered be covered, at much
>> greater expense relative to the smaller additional benefit, and a penaly
>> in
>> significant weight added to the vehicle (assuming the same sound
>> attenuation material is being used).
>>
>> Bill
>>
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