Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:07:09 -0800
Reply-To:     Jeff Schwaia <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jeff Schwaia <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reality, conspiracy. Re: Just like a Vanagon, but modern..
In-Reply-To:  <642115C0BD5D4915A3FEE85E13615121@customerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

It's a market driven economy... if the ROI is enough, they will enter the
market.  Simple.

Sticking with Toyota... if there was such a great conspiracy against them,
how did they ever start selling all those trucks in the USA?  How about
their minivans, the Sienna?  What miracle allowed them to ever sell those in
the USA?  Simple... they did the analysis and determined that it was worth
the investment.  Would the HiAce do as well, no way.  It's just dollars and
sense (yes, I meant to use "sense").

That's the great thing about conspiracy theories, it's all a conspiracy...
it's nearly impossible to argue against as that just makes you part of the
"conspiracy".

Kind of like the old saying about being paranoid:  "Just because I'm
paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't after me."

Jeff


-----Original Message-----
From: HotelWestfalia [mailto:zolo@foxinternet.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:26 PM
To: Jeff Schwaia; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Reality, conspiracy. Re: Just like a Vanagon, but modern..

The conspiracy theory is the wording to redicule the fact that conspiracy is

there.  Well, conspiracy is all over all the time.  That is reality and we
live in it.  It is nothing else, but the works of the ones who are in
control and working in unison.  The Constitution is a conspiracy of  'We the

People' to be things done the way we prefer, whether it happens that way or
not.  Political parties, organizations are united to do the way they prefer.

In essence they are conspiring.  The word now has the connotation to be
negative, yet it's nothing but a group agreeing to do the way they like it
against those who disagree with them.
Unions organize meetings in secret or openly to benefit their members.  And
if it's against an other auto maker to stop them dumping world proven,
succesful vehicles in their turf with their influence in the Congress, and
they succeed in this deed, that foreign auto maker can not do a thing
against it if they don't do the same conspiracy better than that union does.
Those who have been around the world, can tell of all the Mercedes trucks
that rule the world in most countries, yet you don't see any here.  Only
recently you see a few Sprinters.  Does anyone think, Mercedes somehow did
not want this market?  Everybody wants this market.  This market is a dream
of any manufacturer anywhere in the world.  And it is natural for the local
powers to stop them in order to protect their own workers and the flow of
dollars.  Common sense.
In football one team conspires against an other and they proove it on the
field.
Parents conspire against their kids for the benefit of the kids.
And you can make many examples.
So, conspiracy is a normal happening.  And yes, it is not always other
people business to know of it.  And it maybe immoral or even illegal even
though it maybe for the public's benefit.  See Obamacare.
We, Vanagon owners conspire here openly against all the evil that may happen

to our beloved vehicle for our van's and our benefit.
When a pack of volves conspire to hunt down and deer, it is a proof how much

it's part of our fabric, our instinct.
We, the leading animals on this planet, know the best about conspiracy.
We conspire all the time.
United we stand, divided we fall.  Our enemies conspire to divide us.
ETC, etc.
Long live the Vanagons!

Zoltan
(apologies for any mistakes in punctuations)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Schwaia" <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: Just like a Vanagon, but modern..


> Ah yes... good old "conspiracy theory".
>
> Do you really think Toyota wouldn't bring in the Hiace if they believed
> they
> could make lots of money off it?
>
> Yeah, right...
>
> Jeff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Steven Johnson
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:09 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Just like a Vanagon, but modern..
>
> Zoltan's statement still holds true.  Just because Toyota can now afford
> the
> big bribes like the rest of the US auto companies
> doesn't mean that what he said is wrong....
>
> Steven
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Jeff Schwaia <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Not really... there are relatively simple ways for manufacturers to get
>> around the "chicken tax".  The most common is to ship incomplete vehicles
>> and finish the assembly in the USA.  This is not as big of a deal as it
>> sounds.  Look at the Sprinter.  Do you think Dodge (now Mercedes) is
> paying
>> 25% import duty on those vans?  Nope.  They send them as incomplete
> vehicles
>> and then add the final bits (usually made in the USA) before sending them
> on
>> to their dealers.
>>
>> If Toyota, or any other mfg, believed it was financially viable, they
> would
>> do the same.  As a matter of fact, Toyota was one of the first mfg's to
>> utilize the incomplete vehicle loophole with their small trucks.  They
> would
>> ship them to California without the pickup beds.  The beds were made in
> the
>> USA and attached at a processing plant in California.  Viola!  A Japanese
>> made truck without chicken tax...
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>> HotelWestfalia
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 10:33 AM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Just like a Vanagon, but modern..
>>
>> Almost anything that was or is not threatening the US vehicle sales was
>> allowed in with severe restrictions that did not apply to the locals.  We
>> did not get Vanagons with diesel turbo, or with carburetors either.
>> The huge success of the HiAce was a serious threat to the local van
>> manufacturing.  The unions ruled them out.  The local manufacturers
> treated
>> the local market exactly as the drug dealers their own turf.
>> Z
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "J Stewart" <fonman4277@COMCAST.NET>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 7:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: Just like a Vanagon, but modern..
>>
>>
>> > Still do, if you can call it that, the Sienna. More car like than van,
>> > though. Toyota's first mini van sold in the US (1983?) was cool
>> > looking,
>> > it too was Vanagon like only smaller, and even came as a 4X4.
>> > Mitsubishi
>> > had a nice looking small van back in the 80's as well.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Jeff Stewart
>> >
>> > Sorry, left off the link originally. Here it is:
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hiace. According to this, the
>> > Toyota
>> > Hiace came in a camper version. Of course, Toyota sold vans in this
>> > country from long ago. Must be something other than emissions control
>> that
>> > kept these from being marketed here.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > mcneely
>> >
>>
>