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Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2011 08:51:52 -0500
Reply-To:     robby kilborn <robbykilborn@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         robby kilborn <robbykilborn@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company May
              Use - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon
Comments: To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
In-Reply-To:  <007501cbbf6a$2f4ff940$6501a8c0@PROSPERITY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

hydrogen...

a few problems..one is infrastructure ...there isn't a vast distribution system. It would take years to build it. Making it is ...........can be problimatic or environmentally difficult ....wik it.and then there's storage on the vehcile..high pressure tanks .....just far more demanding there.

I have only just begun working with a guy who has been building 'on demand' fuel cells for the past 8 years. He is not overly well known amongst regular joes, but he is sure known internationally. This past week, I have helped to build and install a few cells in cars, trucks, RV's, rc's.... gas and diesels. There is no need to store hydrogen on site, other than enough to keep a steady flow into your combustion chamber. *This system does not replace the need of gasoline or diesel, but it does aid in more complete combustion, so the 13% burn for gas or 17% burn for diesel, is more near 100% - that is the goal, and with some setting and adjusting, it is possible. Next week, I get my own installed in my Syncro. I'll keep you posted on how it works for me. Fuel gains for the people who have been in, have been around 80%. That would mean I'll see closer to 500 miles per tanks! Who wants that? lol. Like I said, its an on demand system that does not replace the need for your current fuel and you do not store any. * **While 80% may seem optimistic, 100% has been had as well. Even if only 20% occurred, That would exceed 300 miles. It is possible to have 100% on demand, but there has to be a way to stop the flow of Hydrogen to the combustion chamber when you let of the gas. We're working on a solenoid set up that would cut off the flow at once, when the accelerator pedal is let up. Until we can get the car to stop powering through, the 100% option is not going to be available. Also, it is important to offer this more as a way to reduce emissions than to save gas. Same story, but different attention. The guy I'm working with/learning from, has had to move shop due to harassment from people who do not appreciate effort to reduce the demand for fuel. As for the obstacles, myths and typical rebuttals about Hydrogen systems... no point in bringing them up here. This works. Its proven. End of story. I just haven't earned mine yet.

Is it worth it for you? What is your current mileage? I get between 250 and 280 per 18G tank. I do a lot of long trips. Using 250 as a base average: 10% = + 25 miles 20% = + 50 miles 25% = + 62.5 miles 50% = + 125 miles 75% = + 187.5 miles 80% = + 2o0 miles 90% = + 225 miles 100% = + 250 miles * * Toss that around in your head awhile. If you're interested in one and want more information, stay in touch. I'll keep and honest and transparent log about what I'm doing and what I'm getting as results. I will be installing several as I make my way across and around the US between now and July.

*** * On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans < scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:

> re > > Cars like this mean fuel prices will have to be about $100/gal. > > Perhaps if all cars on the planet suddenly switched over to that in a year > or two .. > What I think is likely is .. > that Asian countires, India etc .. > will be driving fairly ordinary cars for a while.....they're still working > hard on getting millions of new cars to the masses, and not super high tech > hybird ones too much .. > so lots of fossile fuel will still be burned on the planet for a while... > as they work harder to get more of the juice out of the ground .. > while switch to pure electric cars or very effecient gas/diesel/hybrids .. > I really don't think it's going to get to where > cars are so super effecient they have to charge 25 times as much for a > gallon of gas .. > man ..don't get me started.. > the sheer incredible amounts of gas and diesel and JP-4 that are burned > every second on this planet, 24/7 , 365 days a year ....cars, planes, trains > and ships ... > there is so much burning going on it's silly .. > and there are still millions of people in Mongolia, or the middle east or > say ....india ..that they now want their car that they never had before. > and 'peak oil' ...remember that from about 10 to 15 yrs ago ? > > Now they get it out of previously abondoned oil fields.. > and drill deeper and in more odd areas than ever before. And they don't > just drill straight down .. > they drill miles off to the side ...the amount of oil being extracted is > huge and they are still finding > new depositis of it. > I sure wish they'd stop all that burninf of fossible fuel though. > Heck ..just commuting is a shame. > and Toll Booths ! ..what a collasal waste of fuel and time ...while the > toll takers stand there breating it .. > though I imagine they a fresh air source in some toll taker's booths ..and > they're switching to electroinic toll taking, no stopping. I knew commuting > all at the same time was stupid when I was 6. > Pure dyfunctionality. > and if it ever does get to where the whole planet is screwed becuase they > are still stuck some in the 'age of oil' ....and there isn't enough around > anymore .. > they're gonna look back and see that many many decades worth of oil was > just squandered and wasted. > > hydrogen... > a few problems.. > one is infrastructure ...there isn't a vast distribution system. It would > take years to build it. > Making it is ...........can be problimatic or environmentally difficult > ....wik it. > and then there's storage on the vehcile.. > high pressure tanks .....just far more demanding there. > I beleive I read there are hydrogen fuel stations for cars in Japan > ...maybe it was 20 in the Tokyo area ... > and a few in Los Angeles ..and some fuel cell cars in both of those places. > The real price of a feul cell car currently is about $ 100K ..something > like that, perhaps more even. > I think it's getting 'that much' hydrogen is one of the main problems > too...if it was really depended on for mass use in transportation. > Drive less for one thing. > and ...'the car' is not really BAD.. > it's how THE CAR IS USED. > In the southern oregon city I live near .. > a common person , almost, drives a giant pick up truck as a single person > 'car.' Nothing in it either .. > it's like it's a life style statment ..who cares if it's 15 mpg max. > so if most people drove medium size cars .. > say Honda Accord size before they made it 'fat' ( just like Subaru made > there near perfect size and selling Outback 'fat' last year ) .... > if everyone drove that size car ....normal people , not familes of 9 ...but > that size car, used intellegently, and not spending hours in traffic ..the > 'car problem' ...emissions, accidents, congestion, and fuel consumption > could be easily reduced by half. > and ..I'd like to see this., > Thought of this over 10 years ago ...each car has a large digital readout > on the back that says how many gallons it burned this month. > and near the end of the month you go ' wow...look at that guy ...he's only > on his 7th gallon this month. > And then ....Oh crap ..look at that person in their giant oversize rig and > too-much-driving habits ...they're on their 70th gallon this month.' > But and the way many americans are ..they'd strive for the bigger number > ..many think it is their right to use up all the energy their income will > pay for. We do use 1/4 of the worlds energy.......something like that, and > we are 1/2th of the population .. But that's shifting gradually as people > wake up to the new financial reality and conditions I ..I sure hope ! lol. > And don't even think about places like Lagos Nigeria where the country > exports billions in oil yet most of the nation is in total poverty. > Somethin' aint right there. > And mass transist ..no no no ....always needs to be subsidized at great > government expense.. > isn't as safe as being in your own well-driven car ....and isn't door to > door. Just use appropiately sized cars intellegently. Shouldn't be that > hard really. Before long our gov will privatize with china being the > vendor ...and they'll just send each citizen money and vids to watch . And > we won't burn so much fuel needlessly. > > just use it wisely is all I say. > scott > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "robby kilborn" <robbykilborn@GMAIL.COM > > > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 11:20 AM > Subject: Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company May > Use - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon > > > > Cars like this mean fuel prices will have to be about $100/gal. >> What about Hydrogen? Anybody else running hydrogen on their van? Who is >> getting good mileage these days? What are you doing to get it? >> >> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Robert Stewart <robertmstewart@mac.com >> >wrote: >> >> http://m.wired.com/autopia/2011/01/vw-xl1-concept-car/ >>> >>> Here's an article on the XL1 Concept Car that reaches some insane MPG's. >>> >>> Thought you all might be interested. >>> >>> Rob >>> NY >>> >>> >


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