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Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2011 11:20:35 -0800
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Climbing
Comments: To: Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=original

re I have never driven a WBX motor van..and I know they are meant to be lower rpm than other VW motors...but I'd follow Scott's recommendations..don't floor it or lug it...keep it around 2000rpms.

interesting Vanagon topic to me. the waterboxer vanagon has a very strange 'too flat' torque curve. Before the advent of variable valve timing and varible intact tract configuration in modern engines.. the torque curve of any engine was always the best compromise. A typical engine ... a a Rabbit inline four is a fine example.. has valve timing such that it'll pull decently a lowish rpm , say 1,800 rpm in an engine that does 5,000 rpm total... then it gets into the sweet range ...usually 2,500 to 4,500 on a typical engine .. then power starts dropping off .. the main point is ....decent low and mid-range but there's more power to be found at higher revs . that's 'normal' and very useful.

a waterboxer though .. flat flat flat torque curve. there is honestly very little difference between 2,500 rpm and 4,500 rpm. with a automatic tranmission vanagon it's not hard to be going 55 to 60 mph in 2nd gear accidently .. the engine power and sound is about the same, or 'too similar' . Very strange.

Stock wbxr power is best around 3,500 to 4,500 ...after that things fade. They'll pull well at say 2,800 rpm ... and with light load they can be very zippy .. I've driven 84's that just rip through the lower gears.. oh .. and here is another waterboxer 'trait' power curve wise.. particularily in a manual trans 2.1 .. they rip through the lower gears really fast.. but 'it's over' too soon .. it's like as soon as you get to much power ..that gear is done . Most of them have a tach .. things start waking up nicely at near 3K rpm ...then if on the level..in another second or so .. that gear is 'over' ......time to shift. And a 1.9 is a real 'torqueless wonder' . Smooth ..zippy in lower gears on the flat .. but no real grunt for things like long grades with a a load on baard. VW's of yore were traditioally always very underpowered.. Maybe they don't have 10 mile long grades in high temps in Germany like they do in California .. or they figure grinding up an alpine pass in 2nd gear is 'normal'.

To me good engines will get your more oomph near the top of their rpm range.. and waterboxers don't have a lot of that characteristic.

For a 3 speed auto trans vanagon .. I just say 'big hill climbing mode' is 4,400 rpm in 2nd ..that's about 50 mph roughly .. it might go a bit better than that .. but not much to be gained ......kinda like flying a small aircraft at it's best rate of climb after takeoff...you set it 'in that mode' and just sit there until that long hill is over. torque curve is too flat .. but part of VW's traditional strategy for longer engine life is being underpowered with restricted breathing. what fun. scott turbovans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Hanson" <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 10:00 AM Subject: Re: Climbing

> The thing is to NOT lug the engine. Nor run it at redline for hours on > end. But lugging it...think about the stresses! When the cylinder > fires...something has to move quickly...the piston. When you have a 4000+ > lb vehicle with just 4 pistons trying to move all that mass...there can be > some huge loads created, especially if you've selected a gear that make > the > driveline move the vehicle a long distance for each time the cylinders > fire..(a high gear/low RPM) Now big trucks are built with that in > mind...given very strong internals and ratios that allow big torque to > come > from very low rpm...But a little 2 liter VW motor....they don't have the > strength to be floored at 500rpms without over-stressing the rods, the > pistons, the bearings, etc. I cringe when I see or hear people going from > 15mph to 80mph in 4th gear in a manual tranny in a VW...Or when they just > sit there going uphill in 4th until their speed drops to about 20 and the > van starts bucking.... > I have never driven a WBX motor van..and I know they are meant to be > lower rpm than other VW motors...but I'd follow Scott's > recommendations..don't floor it or lug it...keep it around 2000rpms. > > Don Hanson > > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 5:20 AM, John Reynolds > <transporterjr@yahoo.com>wrote: > >> "The aluminum/ magnesium alloys in the ACVW engine reach their elastic >> state at these higher operating temps. They over-grow, stretch, warp and >> will NEVER go back to their original shapes and sizes." >> >> Not to be picky, but that would be plastic state where things don't >> rebound >> back to original dimensions. Probably meant elastic limit - beyond that >> you are into plastic land - not a happy place with a VW engine. LOL >> >> Good analogy to the bike- I still see people pedaling in high gear all >> the >> time - spin baby, spin! >> >> John >>


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