Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 16:55:51 -0500
Reply-To: Joe Luther <jluther@ALFONS-HAAR.US>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Joe Luther <jluther@ALFONS-HAAR.US>
Subject: Re: General engine bolt/nut sizes
In-Reply-To: <5229B356146A42AC9479C060910D9989@Mikelaptop1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Thanks for the reply, Mike.
I've been working on German machinery for a long time so I'm pretty familiar
with grades of hardware and all that so I just thought it would be nice to
match my freshly tanked case with some nice new (and correct) hardware. I
could probably empty out the coffee can where the dirty used hardware is
soaking in solvent and sort it all out but I thought I would ask and see if
there was a list to get everything new. Whenever we rebuild anything
critical on a machine, I pitch the fasteners and replace with new on general
principles same as we do with O rings and oil seals and valves and springs
and everything else perishable.
I'm really not looking at out-engineering or out-thinking VW but there is
newer technology in many areas since 1983 (such as the self locking nuts)
and I thought it good to ask the question whether others found it made sense
to use it here. I'm glad to hear you've had such good results relying on
straight torque for performance, in mission critical moving machine
applications I've always had to use Nylocs or other self locking hardware so
going by straight torque makes me a little nervous, I'll just have to get
over that.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike [mailto:mbucchino@charter.net]
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 4:11 PM
To: Joe Luther; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: General engine bolt/nut sizes
It doesn't really matter that you don't know where things went, to be
honest. Even if you do have the various german hardware available, it may
not be the proper grade for this application.
As you assemble things, it will become obvious which needs to go where. The
case hardware is pretty self-explanatory. You don't need new hardware. If
you examine the can of hardware (which you'd need to do anyway, if you plan
to replace them), you'll see that the case nuts are plain. The washers used
are both plain and wavy lockwashers.
There's no locktite used or necessary, just the right washers and properly
torqued fasteners (per the manual). As John Muir said in the Idiot manual,
don't think about it, just do what the book tells you to do. Nothing more,
nothing less. If you want to believe that you need to out-think, out-guess
or re-engineer the factory's methods, you're wrong. Use the original parts,
methods, lubricants, sealants, procedures, torques and methods that VW used.
Read and use the Bentley manual and you won't go wrong. Ask the list if
you reach a point where you're not sure of something. I've overhauled
dozens of air-cooled VW engines from 36HP to big-bore Type 4 and Vanagon
engines for over 30 years, so I 'm a good person to ask about such things.
Hope this helps,
Mike B.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Luther
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 3:23 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: General engine bolt/nut sizes
On a related note, is there a source for the hardware used elsewhere in the
1983 2.0 air cooled engine assembly? I would like to replace all of the
screws/nuts/bolts while the engine is going back together, the disassembler
(PO) just kept everything in a can mixed together because he knew where it
went by heart. I don't. I work for a German machine company so I have some
various metric hardware left over from projects, I might have a lot of what
is needed already.
On those nuts that hold the crankcase halves etc together....do you guys
typically use self locking nuts or do regular nuts with blue loctite do the
trick? I haven't laid hands on a Bentley manual yet, all I have to work
with is a Haynes and it's not long on detail other than torque values.
Thanks
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of
Old Volks Home
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 5:34 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Exhaust collector bolt/nut sizes
Gregg -
While other posts debate the good and bad of stainless hardware (of which I
am in the camp of good ole original 1 time use and not stainless), no one
has really fully answered your size question adequately. I offer the
following, complete with VW numbers:
Collector to Header Pipe
N01024416 8x30 (13mm Hex) Bolt Qty 4
Collector to Collector Pipe Going to Cat
N01036112 8x65 (13mm Hex) Bolt Qty 3
N90095501 8x15 Flat Washer Qty 3
Note: Place these on the "nut" side
Note: I have used N01152520 8x16 Flat Washer 025251200 8mm Concave Washer
Qty 3
Note: Place these on the "nut" side
Note: I have used N0122282 8x17 "Wavy Washers"
311101463 8mm (13mm Hex) Locking Hex Nut Qty 3
Collector Pipe to Cat Converter
N01034510 8x45 (13mm Hex) Bolt Qty 3
311101463 8mm (13mm Hex) Locking Hex Nut Qty 3
Cat Converter to Muffler
N01024416 8x30 (13mm Hex) Bolt Qty 3
N01152520 8x17 Flat Washer Qty 3
Note: Place these on the "nut" side
311101463 8mm (13mm Hex) Locking Hex Nut Qty 3
All above fits 86-91
Exhaust Hardware Class 101 dismissed :)
--
Jim Thompson
84 GL 1.9 "Gloria"
84 Westfalia 2.1 "Ole Putt"
72 411 Station Wagon "Pug"
75 914 1.8 "Nancy"
Full Timing Since March 1999
oldvolkshome@gmail.com
http://www.oldvolkshome.com
***********************************
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Gregg Carlen <gregg.carlen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On my 90 Westy, I'm planning tomorrow to replace the exaust collector
> (Bentley calls it an Exhaust manifold, P.26.9) along with the 3
> gaskets. As with any exhaust that's lived past its useful life, the
> nuts and bolts will have to be cut off. Anyone know what the sizes are
> of the 7 bolts/nuts that hold this thing to the associated pipes?
> Bentley shows them, but I can't find an indication of what size they
> are. I've got to pick some up at FLAPS or my local Napa, stainless
> steel,
I would assume if I can.
>
> In case your wondering, I really think its only the donut seal that's
> bad, but that collector isn't looking very good, so I'm just going to
> replace it along with the gaskets anyway. Strangley enough, the rest
> of the pipes (and
> cat/muffler) look in good shape.
>
> TIA,
> Gregg
> 90 Westy
