Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:08:21 -0600
Reply-To: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Originally: JLP rebuilt wbxr engines in Denver
In-Reply-To: <BAY152-ds2055A294EA16E316E529F0A0EC0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
So are you saying the 2.1L WBX is more prone to a rod through the
block than a 1.9L engine is?
John
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
On 2/9/2011 11:03 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
> Of course while raising the compression makes a bit more power and
> efficiency. It also raises the ability to knock and ping and increases NOx
> production. In the extreme you will also have a much better chance of
> melting pistons. 1.9 and 2.1 engines are the same bore. The stroke is
> different and the pistons have the pin hole relocated to compensate. The
> longer stroke makes for more torque. It also changes the arc angle of the
> rods and increases the incidence of rod failures.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> John Rodgers
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 5:12 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Originally: JLP rebuilt wbxr engines in Denver
>
> I'm talking a bit of hear-say now, but I've heard/read that the 1.9L
> heads on a 2.1L engine raises the compression ratio. So the combination
> of the longer stroke of the 2.1L combined the higher compression of the
> 1.9L heads should give better power. I don;t know if it would be
> possible to use cylinder barrels that have been opened up a bit with
> those heads, nor what the implecations might be for the pistons, but the
> possibilities sound intriguing.
>
> So far as pistons go, I have seen pistons where the ring lands were worn
> out of spec, but the crosshatching could still be seen in the cylinder
> walls. If cylinders specs are not worn to out of round (dial indicator
> check) or simply worn over bore, it would seem that one could
> conceivabley clean them up, grind in some cross hatching with a high
> quality hone, and re-used them successfully if good pistons and rings
> are used.
>
> Just my $o.o2 this afternoon.
>
> John
>
>> John Rodgers
>> Clayartist and Moldmaker
>> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
>> Chelsea, AL
>> Http://www.moldhaus.comScott, I am surprised that 1.9 and 2.1 liners are
> the same size or sort of. Busdepot sells 2.1 liners at $707 a set and about
> $400 a set for 1.9 (German or Brazilian). When I take the engine apart I
> will compare them and see if there is any obvious differences. I thought the
> barrels may be the same and the pistons are different to account for the
> larger displacement. If the pistons are the same then the 2.1's larger
> displacement is achieved by the crank. I guess that's entirely possible.
>> Ken, thanks for the info regarding the availability of a cheaper option
> for a set of 2.1 liners. I have never heard that there are liners other than
> Brazilian made (or German OEM?). I have no doubt yours is an excellent
> alternative. Your price is excellent. I wonder why Busdepot wants $707. And
> it's Brazilian made.
>> Dennis, you are right that pistons are wear items and usually wear more
> obviously than cylinders. I do hope that the original pistons being OEM are
> OK for some more miles with new rings and new barrels. If I were to go for a
> full rebuild I would not go this way to save. I just want to get a few more
> years on the engine then retire the engine or retire the entire Vanagon. I
> totally understand that I could find show stoppers at the time I take it
> apart for resealing the heads. I have had to add coolant every month and the
> bottom of the engine indicates coolant leak from the heads. I may realize
> that a replacement engine or a complete rebuild is awaiting.
>> Anyway, I will find out if it is possible to use the new barrels and new
> rings from the new (old stock) of a 1.9 liner set. I may find, as Dennis
> said, that they don't match well with my original 2.1 pistons.
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> MJ in sunny California
>>
>> --- On Mon, 2/7/11, Scott Daniel - Turbovans<scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
> wrote:
>> From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans<scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
>> Subject: Re: Originally: JLP rebuilt wbxr engines in Denver
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Date: Monday, February 7, 2011, 9:36 AM
>>
>> hi MJ,
>> I'm not 1000 % certain this is correct, but my understanding is that the
>> pistons and barrels on 1.9's and 2.'1 are the same.
>> the 2.1 stoke is longer,
>> and 2.1 Volkswagon brand heads are different than 1.9 heads ( combustion
>> chamber volume )
>> ( though AMC heads fit either ) .
>>
>> Call a parts supplier and ask, or...
>> a quick google seacrh gets this ..
>> one company showing they're the same for both engines .
>>
> http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_act_page.render_pageID_657_lang_EN_country_GB.h
> tm
>> the external physical dimensions of both engines are the same, so either
>> engine will bolt in where the other was, btw.,
>>
>> on a Brazilian set of P& B's I got a while back, that I put on a 1.9.
>> The top of the barrels fit much too tightly into the heads ..
>> like sheered aluminum off the head ..they fit so tightly.
>> I had to spend hours hand lapping the barrels to fit into the cylinders
>> properly, and not jam there.
>> It worked out nicely ..
>> but they were not dimensionally exactly correct.
>>
>> typical I could almost say for parts we get these days, sometimes.
>> scott
>> turbovans
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "M. Jade"<tinho2010@YAHOO.COM>
>> To:<vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:36 PM
>> Subject: Originally: JLP rebuilt wbxr engines in Denver
>>
>>
>> While we are on this subject can I ask a related question? Sorry, Scott, I
>> hope you don't mind I ask this question on this topic.
>>
>> I bought a new Brazilian 1.9L cylinder/piston liner set several years ago.
> I
>> picked it up cheap when someone wanted to unload it on Craigslist. The
>> problem is my 85 has a 2.1 engine on it. So here is my question.
>>
>> Can I use the new cylinders and the new rings out of this new 1.9L liner
> set
>> and install them on my 2.1 engine? This means I am reusing the 2.1
> pistons.
>> My understanding of the difference between 1.9 and 2.1 liners is only in
> the
>> pistons. The cylinder bores and possibly the rings are identical.
>>
>> I believe it is about time to reseal my 2.1 cylinder heads. I may take
> this
>> opportunity to renew the cylinders and all the rings. Is this a good idea
> or
>> not?
>>
>> This is similar to what that company does (but with a new set of
> cylinders)
>> for the advertised engine. I assume that my pistons are still good. I
> don't
>> want a full rebuild at this time. Thanks for any suggestions.
>>
>> MJ in sunny California
>> (81 degree F in Oakland today)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 7:52 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans<
>> scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi ..
>>> anyone ever deal with or hear anything about this company ?
>>>
>>> http://www.waterboxer.com/engines/vw-vanagon-21l-engine
>>>
>>> a 2.1 is $ 1,865 US with no core required..
>>> and all new bearings blah blah blah ..
>>> but used pistons with new rings and honed original barrels ( ??...sounds
>>> strange to me )
>>>
>>> so anyone ...?
>>> A customer is suggesting/wondering about this option.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> scott
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Casey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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