Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 16:38:47 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: engine dying while driving
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reply-type=original
hi...lol.
what a shame, aye ! ?
really. I had a 2.1 waterboxer van here ....the guy had had his distributor
replaced twice, to the tune of $ 600 both times ..to fix loss of
power/stumgling..
and the guy he had do that work............claimed to be a hot shot long
time experienced german car and vanagon technician ..
yet he had never heard of Vanagon Syndrome..
which you can read about 'all over' the internet ..
even ..............I believe .....think I've seen this ...official factory
bulletins on the syndrome.
just from a simple search online..
so ....there is this vast collection of expience and knowledge ..avaiable
here and in forums like this ..
and 'shops' who are not tapped into that..
and heck ..even local vanagon people to me, who are not tapped into internet
vanagon conenction..
are missing out on a lot !!
I will agree you have to watch out about what you read on the internet ..
there is misinformation for sure here and there.
But there's many times more very good stuff that you might not find out
othewise..
and in car repair ..
or even vanaogn repair .........one could never really, ever, learn all
there is to know.
So, constant study and learning is a 'good thing' .
there is a 'slight need' for a bit of ...over-confidence ........certainly
confidence ..
it can show up as arrogance ..there are some techs you can't tell anything
to ..they think they know it all ..my point there is ....good
self-confidence is needed really ..to fix cars professionally .
so it's not uncommon to find the occasional prema donna mechanic ..
but they could all stand to keep learning all the time. In car repair in
general..
one person could never learn all there is to know.
More narrowly focsed, like on vanagons .....there still is a LOT to learn
and know. I doubt anyone ever knows 'everything' there is to know about
fixing vanaogns.
for me ...in any service I purchase..
I look for smart eager hard working people ...compentence combined with good
value.
When I find that ..I stick with 'em forever.
back to tech .
.I was just reminded of a shorted oxygen sensor signal..
intermittantly ..someone should check for that.
I have seen the occasional 2.1 ECU wiring harness where the orignal 02
sensor coax was bypassed ..and a new one substituted . I've never seen that
happen ..shorted to ground 02 signal .
but it's one of the many, many things that need to be considered.
and there was one 2.1 waterboxer that I saw ..
and barely got to work on ...........and it would stumble/stall -
intermittantly too.
Wasn't able to work on it much ..but checking the temp II sensor ...mabye
changing it, and trying another air flow meter or two , and a VSS harness
...none of those fixed it ..
but I also didn't have time to really work on it. Never did hear what was
the deal with that van.
I've had them be difficult for sure.
There's one of my own vans ...working to get it all happy and sellable ..
it would run an hour and then just not go ..
wait ....an hour or so ....it's fine again. I suspect that fuel tank.
and ..it's amazing ..how often .when a car or van quits....flames out,
stalls...
if you just wait an hour or so..often they'll work again , until it does it
again.
nice to see your post.
scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joy Hecht" <jhecht@ALUM.MIT.EDU>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: engine dying while driving
> Scott, you want to come fix it? You're invited! I'm sure Newfoundland
> isn't too far from wherever you live! ;-)
>
> Who sells the vanagon syndrome harness?
>
> Unfortunately, since I can't work on this myself, I have to go to a
> mechanic. I have one who knows old VW vans, but I've never met a
> professional mechanic who was willing to even LOOK at the suggestions of
> people on the vanagon list as to what is wrong. It's rather annoying.
> They
> are all convinced that anyone on the internet must be some ignorant
> dingbat
> and they needn't pay any attention to their diagnoses.
>
> Sigh...
>
>
>
> Joy
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <
> scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
>> Does it have an anti-Vanagon Syndrome harness on the Air Flow Meter ??
>>
>> pertty mandatory to have one of those on there in my world.
>> I don't exactly comppletely believe in VSS ..
>> but ..
>> I just had a problem with the same engine ...2.1 wbsr and manual trans
>> ..
>> I'd pull out to go on my local main business street....stall and loose
>> power..
>> funnny, never did that in all the time it was a yard runner ..
>> try to go out into the street ...stall, stumbe, barely keep running.
>> Come back, drive around the comound of buildings..no problem,
>> go to into the street..stall, stumble ....
>> did that four times.
>> there's no anti-VSS harness on it.
>> I put one I had on ..
>> end of problem.
>>
>> and ..no mention of fuel filter or fuel pump in your post ..a
>> and it coudl as easily be an intermittantly clogged fuel pick in the fuel
>> tank.
>>
>> I run them with a fuel pressure gague on them ..
>> to deterine when stalling/stumbling is due to a fuel supply or pressure
>> problem .
>>
>> and ...you really can not actually tell from the driver's seat ..
>> if it's fuel injection quiting ..
>> or igntion quitting ..
>> or fuel ..
>> or even intermittantly clogged cat or muffler..
>>
>> it's most like one or more of those four 'pathways' ...
>> or even intermittant sealing of the main air boot at the throttle body .
>> extremely unlikely ..
>> but when engine movement or throttle position seems to affect running ..
>> you look for something like that ..
>> so that's 5 pathways that could be blocked or leaking , and intermittant.
>>
>> to say 'it's an electrical problem .
>> a very pat answer or comment.
>> yes ..
>> it is ..littearallly ..'a blockage or leakage of fluids or electrons' ..
>> litterally, or numerous ones ..
>> also ...people might think 'fluids' means liquids like fuel or oil..
>> gaseous things are also fluidsd ..so it includes air, vaccuum, anhd
>> exhaust
>> .
>>
>> I never ever say 'uh ..it wouldn't do it for me. Sorry ...goodbye.'
>>
>> If it won't do it for me ..
>> there has never been a vanagon I couldn't find several things not quite
>> right about ..
>> and I could offer ...'can't tell for sure this one thing is it ..but it's
>> not right..if it was my van, I'd fix that ..and even it didn't fix it, it
>> would advance things , and we'd know more.'
>>
>> or offer to do longer term testing ..
>> how about this one..
>> you suspect it's intermittant igntion ( btw ..does it have a tach ..if
>> it's
>> a fuel probem say ..
>> tach will continue reading rpm while it's loosing power and rpm . If it's
>> ignition ..usually the tach will go to zero when power is lost ) ..
>> you rig up a timing light in the back of the van so it flashes, triggered
>> by a spark plug wire ..
>> so you watch it flash in the inside rear view mirror ..
>> if you looose power ..but there are still steady ignition-triggered
>> flashes
>> ..it's not the igntion that's cutting out.
>> stuff like that ...takes more dedication and cleveriness. than you'll
>> often
>> be able to find. .
>> but those things can be tested for and found..
>> even if .say ..I have to run the van off another fuel tank in the back
>> seat
>> ..to prove conclusively that it's the fuel tank that's the issue ....
>>
>> tell them you have a blockage or leakage of fluids or electrons..or more
>> than on ..that you need found and corrected in the van. lol. I hope it
>> gets fixed.
>>
>> I suggest saying year, model, and transmission early in the post. Sharp
>> diagnostic minds will want to know that right off the bat. Untill it's
>> stated whether it's a Digijet 1.9 or a Digifant 2.1 ..or a diesel ..
>> diagnostic minded people can't think about what mgitht be going on as
>> well...........or I sure can't.
>> scott
>> www.turbovans.com
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joy Hecht" <jhecht@ALUM.MIT.EDU>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 11:20 AM
>> Subject: engine dying while driving
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> Got a vanagon question! No halogen lights, no list-language
>>> discussions,
>>> all vanagon.
>>>
>>> My engine has an intermittent problem. It dies while driving. This has
>>> been going on for a long time (since last fall). I'm driving along,
>>> usually
>>> (but not always) at fairly slow speed, in suburban or urban driving, and
>>> it
>>> just loses power and then dies. Sometimes it loses power and if I give
>>> it
>>> more gas, it bucks and coughs (choose your metaphor) - then sometimes it
>>> dies, and other times it feels like something catches in the cough and
>>> it
>>> starts going normally again. Feels very weird.
>>>
>>> This seems to happen more predictably when I'm going up a hill, or have
>>> to
>>> shift in urban driving. I find myself giving it more gas than I usually
>>> would, and sometimes revving it too high without shifting, in order to
>>> prevent it from dying. I'm afraid to go up really steep hills (MANY of
>>> them
>>> in St. John's) because I'm sure it will die, and I'll not be able to
>>> start
>>> it up again, and then I'll be in a mess, having to back down the hill
>>> coasting or something. (This happened once. Not good.)
>>>
>>> When it dies, I put flashers on, stop, turn the engine off, turn it back
>>> on,
>>> and almost always it starts up and behaves properly. Canadians are
>>> extremely polite, but I imagine the people behind me do NOT appreciate
>>> this.
>>>
>>> One time it did this at high speed, on the Trans-Canada. Not good. It
>>> wouldn't start up again - well, it did, but then died promptly again. I
>>> pulled over, called a tow truck, waited around ten minutes. Then
>>> started
>>> it
>>> and it worked fine. I ended up canceling the tow truck, and didn't have
>>> any
>>> more problems for the next 400 or so miles till I got home.
>>>
>>> I've taken it to two mechanics. Before heading back to Newfoundland in
>>> February, I took it to my mechanic in NJ. He said "sounds like an
>>> electrical problem." He searched all over, and drove it around, but it
>>> didn't act up when he was driving it, and he said he couldn't figure out
>>> the
>>> problem unless he saw it happen. Incidentally, this same mechanic
>>> replaced
>>> my alternator in October, and I drove a fair bit (up to Westies at
>>> Watkins
>>> and back, maybe 600 miles) after that with no problems at all. So
>>> presumably it's not the alternator.
>>>
>>> So reluctantly I headed back to Newfoundland (long drive, cold weather,
>>> not
>>> nice to take risks with uppity van when Propex heater still doesn't work
>>> despite Karl M's repairing it last fall). I got as far as those 400
>>> miles
>>> from St. John's, that's when it died on the Trans-Canada. After it
>>> started
>>> up again, I drove into Corner Brook, which wasn't far, and took it to a
>>> mechanic who someone had told me was the best one around for electrical
>>> work. They said that it sounded electrical, but if they didn't see it
>>> happen, they couldn't fix it. He said something electrical is getting
>>> hot
>>> and then cutting out. When I stop it cools down, and then it works okay
>>> again. If this were the case, though, why would I have been able to
>>> drive
>>> from New Jersey to Newfoundland, all highway driving, without it
>>> happening
>>> once? And why does it more reliably happen when driving around town,
>>> often
>>> when I've just started and the engine is cold?
>>>
>>> So anyway, I came back to St. John's, got here fine. Now I only drive
>>> to
>>> do
>>> errands around town that I can't do on foot. Pretty much every time I
>>> drive, it cuts out at least once, then starts up again and seems okay.
>>> It
>>> seems to happen often when going slowly - pulling out of a parking
>>> space,
>>> starting up at a traffic light, parallel parking.
>>>
>>> My neighbor (not a car mechanic) said he thinks it's a clutch problem,
>>> because I told him it happens more when I have to shift.
>>>
>>> What do you all think? BTW, Matilda (my van) is an '89 with a manual
>>> transmission.
>>>
>>> I'm planning to take her to my mechanic here (who specializes in old
>>> VWs),
>>> but I'm almost waiting until I'm sure she'll act up when he drives it,
>>> since
>>> I suppose he'll also say that if he doesn't see it happen, he can't
>>> figure
>>> out what's wrong. So I figured I'd ask for your opinions.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Joy
>>>
>>
>>
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