Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 18:16:01 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: More fun with mechanics
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original
Hi..
very 'new news' for you then ...ALL wheeled vehicles..
all trucks, vanagons, scooters,cars etc..
if here is a 'wheel' ......it rides on bearings.
Trains too. All wheels on all vehicles ride on bearings of some sort.
vanagon has two per rear 'stub axle' ....one outer, one inner..
I am amazed at how well they last....150 to 200K miles sometimes. .
Seems there's lots of load on them given it's two 'not huge' bearings only
about 3 1/3 inches apart on a short stub axle ..lots of leverage it seems to
me, that short shaft would have on those close together bearings.
the outer one is a very nice roller one ..costs more than the more simple
and inexpensive inner ball type on.
what usually happens is the outer bearing just wears in the races and the
rollers..
until clearance that was basically nil.....like just filled with a thin
grease fill..
turns into a thousandth or a few ..
easily detectible by ..
rear wheels off the ground, parking brake off, in neutral .
wiggle the whole wheel-tire up-down .
if the top moves in and out 1/8th inch ..I call that 'getting there' for
sure.
more than that is really due.
I have not seen the bearings ever fail myself...
just get looser , and sometimes subtly noisy
Your guys ran it in the air and put their listening stick to the rear wheel
bearing housings at say .....40 mph in 3rd ......right ??? !!
there are some clunks you never find until you disassemble things.
never had a bad problem with that on any 2WD vanagons ..
syncro's are another story.
someone checked engine to trans mounting bolts ?
it has the correct shorter lower engine mounting studs ..
the common manual trans engine studs are longer ..
often people will not get the right studs in the engine for the trans..
and you see auto trans vanagons with washers and spacers under the bottom
engine mounting stud nuts.
And I have see one of those studs pull right out ..
though that was a syncro with a driveshaft u-joint problem and a very tired
trans ..
but check engine to trans mounting.
oh yes !
the ole 'body shop factor.' ..
high probability that has something to do with it !!
needless to say ..
it would take me a long time to tell about all the lousy work ( not the
paint part - that they pretty much always looks pretty decent, at least at
first glance ) I've seen come out of body shops.
Like shockingly bad sometimes.
bumper brackets loose ?
you kicked or pushed other wise jiggled your muffler/cat/tail pipe around
..right.
first thing you do is kick it with your foot ..
see if clanks, rattles, clunks, seems loose etc.
then when under it and working on it..you tap all around on exhaust things
with a large rubber mallet.
if you can make it do it anytime you want..
drive alongside a wall to get the reflected sound to hear if front or rear,
left or right side more.
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: More fun with mechanics
> Hey there Scott,
>
> Both mechs manhandles the axles. Gary said he unbolted the axles from
> the flanges and wobbled, wiggled, and generally harassed them and
> everything felt fine. No bindings, no loosenesses, nothing felt wrong.
>
> Regarding rear wheel brg play, how can I check that? Where is the brg?
>
> (I didn't even know these were still using brgs in the '80s.)
>
> If tomorrow's weather is as sweet as today's I will check that muffler
> question. It's possible, I can't say it's certain, but the noise MAY
> have started after the van was crunched by the parked aircooled bus that
> was totaled by the guy driving down our street. The tailpipe has a 3/4
> moon cross-section from the collision, which suggests . . . merely hints
> at . . . tempts me with the possibility that the muffer is banging the
> body like *(=== similie redacted because this is a family show===)* in a
> dirty video.
>
> --
> Rocky J Squirrel
>
>
>
> On Sat, 2011-04-02 at 13:29 -0700, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>
>> auto trans, no clutch plate.
>>
>> I'm with drivetrain as the main suspect.
>>
>> any check that the CV joint screws are all tight ?
>> or check for rear wheel brg play ?
>>
>> and the muffler isn't just touching the body, right ?
>> sometimes they are very close to bodywork or the frame back there..
>> like 3/8th of an inch from contact.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "ralph meyermann" <ralphmeyermann@GMAIL.COM>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 1:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: More fun with mechanics
>>
>>
>> > Could the elastomers or springs be out of the clutch plate?
>> >
>> > On Apr 2, 2011 3:00 PM, "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > The thunking only occurs when the drivetrain gets slack. Like taking
>> > your foot off the gas pedal while cruising slowly on a flat street.
>> > Re-applying pressure on the pedal does not cause the noises. Sometimes
>> > when the van is moving at just the right speed . . . 8 mph or so . . .
>> > on a flat street, sort of idling along, you can hear the mystery
>> > thunker
>> > going thunk thunk thunk. It's a heavy sound, can be felt a little bit.
>> >
>> > Second gear seems to be perfect to set up the right relationship
>> > between
>> > engine power and van moving resistance, allows the right amount of
>> > slack. If that makes any sense at all, first is too "tight" and 3rd,
>> > well, there's a lot more road noise when up in third it might be
>> > happening but can't hear it.
>> >
>> > If this sounds like a suspension bushing thing, then we'll look again
>> > there. But it feels like a drivetrain thing. But the engine does not
>> > move visibly when thunking, the transmission and diff were rebuilt and
>> > the noise was happening before and now after the rebuild, and Gary just
>> > checked the axles.
>> >
>> > It baffles science.
>> > --
>> > Rocky J Squirrel
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, 2011-04-02 at 09:34 -0700, Don Hanson wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Roc...
