Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 09:41:44 -0700
Reply-To: Alistair Bell <albell@SHAW.CA>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Alistair Bell <albell@SHAW.CA>
Subject: Re: Water tank
In-Reply-To: <20110517122122.TP96T.468387.imail@eastrmwml45>
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Dave,
you're absolutely right about the amphoteric diss. but keeping the
discussion on scale/lime removal, I don't find that bicarb soln does a
good job.
We are on well water here, and while the piped in water from
reservoirs that most folk get in this area is slightly acid if
anything, our well is smack in the middle of a limestone vein. So our
water is hard as can be, with a dog's breakfast of dissolved minerals.
That is the main reason I have the muriatic acid around, it really is
as bad as that.
CLR works, but only to a point. I haven't found that bicarb is worth
the effort. Vinegar works in the kettle, esp. if you boil it.
One cool ( I think anyway) use of bicarb in cooking is to add a tad to
flour when coating fish/meat for frying. It will promote browning of
the crust, via (I think) the maillard reaction).
alistair
On 17-May-11, at 9:21 AM, mcneely4@COX.NET wrote:
> Yes, Alistair, it is mildly basic in pH response. But, of course
> you are quite familiar with the amphoteric disassociation reaction
> of sodium bicarbonate in water, and the reaction of that solution
> with salts. We don't need to get overly technical on the list, but
> you know what I am speaking about, and of course could write the
> equations in your sleep. A strongly basic solution will have no
> effect on lime or other basic salts, so far as dissolving them. An
> amphoteric solution will. In using sodium bicarbonate, it is the
> acidic ions present in the solution that dissolve the basic salts.
> At least that's how I understand it. Please correct me if I am
> wrong. But the list isn't interested in all this, so we should
> take the discussion private or drop it, whatever you prefer. It may
> be beyond my memory of chemistry anyway. mcneely
>
> ---- Alistair Bell <albell@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> Yeah, I wondered too about folk using coke as a rust remover. More
>> effective to get some Naval Jelly as a phosphoric acid source.
>>
>> btw, sodium bicarb. (baking soda) will makes a mildly alkaline, not
>> acidic, solution.
>>
>> For safe (ie not using muriatic acid), de-liming, that CLR stuff is
>> pretty good. Its a mix of a few mild organic acids, and removes rust
>> stains too (but does not do the latter as well as the more toxic
>> oxalic acid).
>>
>>
>> alistair
>>
>>
>> On 17-May-11, at 8:47 AM, mcneely4@COX.NET wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Alistair. I should have remembered that, but haven't looked
>>> at a soft drink label in a while. Seems odd to me that folks would
>>> use a sugared drink for things like cleaning battery terminals and
>>> brackets, but I know people who do. Why not just use something that
>>> is less messy? Like a little baking soda in water, which is plenty
>>> acidic for the purpose. Deliming is another matter, the lime
>>> requires a more acidic material. mcneely
>>>
>>> ---- Alistair Bell <albell@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>> the carbonic acid produced as a result of carbonation of the soda
>>>> pales in comparison to the phosphoric acid added to coke. There
>>>> might
>>>> be some citric added to coke, but the acid is mostly phosphoric.
>>>>
>>>> alistair
>>>>
>>>> On 17-May-11, at 6:31 AM, Dave Mcneely wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ---- BenT Syncro <syncro@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>> Please get it right. Not Coke.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Diet Coke with Lime. Whatever chemical they are using to mimic
>>>>>> lime, I'm addicted to it. Makes my water taste great. Of course
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> water comes in 12oz. cans with poptabs.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far as the coke (whatever additional flavors) being a good
>>>>> solvent (for lime of the hard variety for that matter ;-) ), so
>>>>> would any other soft drink be. The carbonation is acidic, of
>>>>> course, plus they use citric acid (says on the label, "for
>>>>> tartness"). For all I know (I don't drink sodas, so don't have
>>>>> any
>>>>> handy to check) there is extra citric acid in the citrus flavors
>>>>> compared to regular.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jeff. enjoy.
>>>>>
>>>>> mcneely
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> David McNeely
>>
>
> --
> David McNeely
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