Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 13:32:35 -0700
Reply-To: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Auto Trans Modified Governor Test Report [addendum]
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinW7XiiaY3mazgz9HADNw=oRTzhfg@mail.gmail.com>
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On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 11:21 -0700, Loren Busch wrote:
> RE: Modified Governor In AT w/Stock VW Engines
> So let me ask a very basic question. What makes us think that the
> engineers at VW didn't know what they were doing? What makes us
> think that the stock match between RPM and tranny gearing is wrong?
> And in addition what makes us think the new shift points are better
> than what the original designers came up with?
I just got back from German Transaxle and asked Ken whether he felt that
there would be any reliability issue moving the shift points up with the
modified governor, and he said no.
I asked whether the VW engineers may have picked the stock shift points
for solid design reasons, and he said that there were probably many
factors. For example, some people live in hilly terrain while others
live on the flats. Women (he said women, this may or may not be sexist
or may express preference) like lower shift points because they may feel
that the sound of the engine revving high can cause concern. Mileage
enters into the mix, as does straight up driver preference. He's had
some people return the modified governor because they hated the change.
Others, like me, love it. Engineering is not the only factor that drives
design -- the pesky Marketing department gets their foot into it, too.
Between the time that VW first introduced the 010 transmission (late
'70s?) until they discontinued it, they constantly tinkered with the
shift points, in the valve body mainly.
The shift points are a matter of compromise between many different
needs.
I asked whether he sells the modified governor and how much for one. He
said he used to sell them and charged $20, asking for a $50 core
deposit. But many people didn't bother returning the core, and stock
governors are getting hard to come by. I suggested a $500 core deposit.
That, I said, would guarantee that everyone would return their old one.
As mentioned when I posted this addendum earlier today, that there
appears to be some weakness in the cooler that mounts to the front of
the transaxle that should be attended to if someone wants to try this
modification, see my addendum post of earlier today. There may be other
unintended consequences, but damage to the transaxle does not seem
likely.
> BTW, I understand the need to change the shift point in the auto
> tranny if going to a Zetec or Subie engine, whole different power
> curves. I also know that the auto tranny in the Vanagons has a
> stellar reputation for reliability and endurance when paired with the
> stock engines. So why are we trying to re-engineer what has proven to
> be a good setup?
I asked that of Ken, too. He said that many things on a car (he used air
intake as an example, I'm not sure what he was referring to, but some of
you might know) where the general driver might ask, "what's wrong with
the way the manufacturer set it up?" and the car enthusiast might want
to modify for his or her personal driving habits. "Tuning," he called
it.
Musicians know about tuning. Why would someone modify the bridge or nut
on a fretted instrument to raise or lower the strings? Didn't the
manufacturer get it right?
Near as I could tell from his words and demeanor, this change in the
shift point is not trouble for the transaxle. He didn't think this was a
big deal. The presence of a brown Vanagon in the GTA parking lot -- and
not one stuck in one space but in different locations every time I go
over, so it probably belongs to someone who works there -- suggests that
he and the crew are not unfamiliar with our vans.
I have a question for those of you who drive a 1.9L manual: at what rpm
do you normally upshift when pulling into traffic, or when climbing up a
hill? I bet it's higher than 2600 rpm.
--
Rocky J Squirrel
