Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 21:38:16 -0700
Reply-To: Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Spooked!
In-Reply-To: <06a201cc226b$41363b60$c3a2b220$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I think your motor is getting old and in need of work. 120K miles is a
lot on most motors other than the Japanese ones of the WBX era.
You can get better oil pressure with heavier oil. 20-50 will get you
through the summer or till you decide to fix the motor or something else.
Low oil pressure is a pretty sure sign of a tired motor, and your odo
confirms it is nearing it's expected service life..
Don Hanson
On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Tom Hargrave <thargrav@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> Yep, install a pressure gauge to monitor the oil pressure. Once you
> understand what the pressure is doing you can make some informed decisions.
>
> For example, if its low across all ranges then maybe you need a full
> rebuild
> or maybe just the oil pump needs replaced. I'd try the oil pump first -
> it's
> a cheaper solution.
>
> If the pressure only drops at high temperatures or after running hard on
> the
> interstate then the solution is a thermostatically controlled oil cooler or
> if the wasserbox engine still retains the same style oil cooler as the air
> cooled, make sure the cooler is not plugged up with road dirt and grime.
> I've seen a plugged oil cooler cause a over-heat problem on at least a
> dozen
> air cooled VW engines.
>
> If adding a oil cooler, you need the thermostat control because running oil
> too cold is almost as bad as running oil too hot.
>
> Thanks, Tom Hargrave
> www.stir-plate.com
> www.towercooler.com
> www.kegkits.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans [mailto:scottdaniel@turbovans.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 10:05 PM
> To: Tom Hargrave; vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
> Subject: Re: Spooked!
>
> none of that is going to help your apparent low oil pressure problem.
> I believe you expressed needing to use the van badly right away this
> weekend.
>
> just tryin' to get you through the weekend.
> I hope it's clear I NEVER recommend a cooler t-stat as any sort of repair.
>
> just tryin' to save ya for the weekend.
> Got any better ideas ?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Hargrave" <thargrav@hiwaay.net>
> To: "'Scott Daniel - Turbovans'" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>;
> <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 6:59 PM
> Subject: RE: Spooked!
>
>
> >A cooler thermostat is a quick fix for a lot of ails but it rarely solves
> > anything.
> >
> > A lower temperature thermostat will open sooner causing the engine to run
> > cooler & consume more gas. It will also cause the engine to wear out
> > faster,
> > again because it's running cooler.
> >
> > But a cooler thermostat won't help overheating the least bit. When
> > overheating your standard temperature thermostat will be open just as
> much
> > as a cooler thermostat and your water flow will be the same. Either way
> > it's
> > just too hot.
> >
> > If you have a overheating problem you need to look for restrictions in
> the
> > system, most likely the radiator, or causes for the excess heat like lean
> > fuel mixture or incorrect timing. Even dragging brakes can cause a engine
> > overheating problem.
> >
> > Thanks, Tom Hargrave
> > www.stir-plate.com
> > www.towercooler.com
> > www.kegkits.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > Scott Daniel - Turbovans
> > Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 8:32 PM
> > To: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
> > Subject: Re: Spooked!
> >
> > How many miles on the engine ..
> > or specifically the bottom end ?
> >
> > I was searching for some diesel AAZ connecting rods ( anyone got a set
> for
> > sale ? ) last night and stumbled onto 'how 2.1 waterboxer rods fail.'
> >
> > long report by a guy. He was driving a 2.1 wbxr with about 150K miles on
> > it
> > ..
> > and he was driving it with about 9psi oil pressure at speed, and 3 or 4
> > psi
> > at a hot idle !!
> >
> > Sure blew that engine. His main point is without knowing what the actual
> > oil
> > pressure is ( with an OP gague on the dash ) ..........and miles are very
> > high on a 2.1 wbxr bottem end, you're taking a real chance.
> >
> > Oil pressure varies by the oil clearance at the bearings ( as the rod
> > bearings wear ) ....
> > and by temperature, and by weight of oil.
> > So hot engine, many miles on the engine, and say ...10W40 oil can result
> > in
> > very low oil pressure at times ..
> > down to just a few psi at idle..
> > and at say 60mph ..it should have about 25psi at least. 20 min for sure.
> >
> > 2.1 rod bolts are the stretch type. You can read about that all day long
> > on
> > the internet ..
> > which is a factor in why 2.1's with high miles can have a rod bearing
> > problem.
> >
> > in the short term ..
> > it sounds like it was really hot., by your discription of how hot it
> > seemed
> > by the engine.
> > This is cheating ..
> > and it's only to get you through the week...
> > but you can help your situation by putting in a cooler thmerostat ( 80 C
> )
> > and thicker oil.
> >
> > Bear in mind that a cooler t-stat does not make it run cooler when it's
> > really running hot ..
> > it will just make it 'try' to run cooler. Like if you're cruising on the
> > level, and it's not a hot day ..
> > it might run at 170F rather than the desired 180F or a bit higher .
> > If it's a real hot day, long grades, big laods, or stuck in traffic,
> it'll
> > still try to run at 200 or whatever.
> >
> > and put in 20W50 oil. or .....
> > if it's a tired old trashed waterboxer engine anyway ..and it's an
> > emergency
> > ..
> > and you're not expecting miracles......like this is for emergency use
> only
>
> > !
> > ..put in racing 50W oil.
> >
> > Don't tell anyone I said thes though. ( joking, I know this is public )
> > it's not any kind of 'repair' , it's pure band-aid and hope. Extreme
> > short
> > term emergency use only.
> >
> > you should have an oil pressure guage so you really know what is going
> on.
> > unless there is a sensor or gauge/warning system malfunction ..
> > and miles are high on the engine ..
> > it sounds like you have a real ( and fairly common ) oil clearance/oil
> > pressure issue.
> >
> > Some people have improved this situation with new oil pump .. I don't
> > really
> > beleive in that ..might help a little.
> > and you might start researching new engine options.
> > the enhanced waterboxer I can recommend is the thecentife 2.2 better
> > waterboxer, by Chris Corkin ..
> > on thesamba.
> > Scott
> > www.turbovans.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET>
> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 5:28 PM
> > Subject: Spooked!
> >
> >
> >> While driving my manual tranny 88GL home this afternoon the oil
> >> pressure alarm sounded and the oil pressure light came on. I killed the
> >> ignition immediately, noted all the gages seemed normal, and being very
> >> close to my house just coasted on down the street, around the corner,
> >> and halfway up my up-slope driveway and stopped. All the while I'm
> >> thinking "Omigosh! What now?" ( I have an important art show to
> >> participate in on Sat. and have to set up by 6 am -- this is not good!)
> >>
> >> After getting stopped, I sat for a moment, the turned the ignition on.
> >> All the lights did their normal thing. I hit the switch, the engine
> >> started right up, oil pressure light went out. I noted no strange
> >> sounds, and the oil pressure alarm did not sound. I drove the remaining
> >> 100 feet up the hill to the house - all was normal.
> >>
> >> Today was extraordinarily hot - 100 plus degrees, driving was slow
> >> coming off the highway home, and even though the temp gauge needle was
> >> in the middle, nothing seemed wrong. I did note that at very slow speeds
> >> the fan kept coming on frequently. I was poking along about 30 mph when
> >> the alarm sounded and the oil pressure light came on.
> >>
> >> I opened the hatch, and noted the engine seemed really hot. The heat
> >> just came boiling out. I looked for oil leaking, coolant leaking, etc,
> >> but found nothing. Oil dip stick measures halfway between the marks, and
> >> the coolant level is up. I checked the rear oil pressure switch, and the
> >> wiring connector, but it was tight.
> >>
> >> I let the van sit a while with the hatch open to cool the engine, then
> >> started it up. After Idling a minute, I revved the engine up to 3000. I
> >> ran perfect. No lights, no alarms. I have tried several times now, but
> >> cannot reproduce the event. Of course the circumstances have changed as
> >> the atmosphere is cooling down.
> >>
> >> Anybody have any ideas? Can the engine oil get so hot under normal
> >> driving conditions as to cause low oil pressure. Surely that is not a
> >> good thing. But how can I avoid that in the common daily summer weather
> >> here in the South. I'm afraid this event might repeat itself at a
> >> tremendously inopportune time - as such events usually do.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> John Rodgers
> >> Clayartist and Moldmaker
> >> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> >> Chelsea, AL
> >> Http://www.moldhaus.com
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
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> > Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1511/3679 - Release Date: 06/03/11
> >
>
> -----
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> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1511/3679 - Release Date: 06/03/11
>
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