Date:         Wed, 1 Jun 2011 04:06:39 -0500
Reply-To:     jackandhank@MCHSI.COM
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jack Botts <jackandhank@MCHSI.COM>
Subject:      Re: Strange pattern of tach and motor dying(long)
In-Reply-To:  <445036948.3984791306919167945.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs7>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I had a similar situation; mine occured during rain, but the cause, if it
was the cause, that is, could have happened in the dry. Also, when it died,
I could turn ignition off, tnen it would restart. We were 100 miles from
home and my wife, bless her heart, did not relish the thought of spending
the rest of the trip doing that (every couple minutes, and I was getting
pretty good at it), so Westy finished the trip aboard the dreaded roll-back.
What appeared to solve it was to tape up the dangling O2 sensor wires left
when the PO did not re-install the sensor at some point. This was the 2nd of
3 '86 Weekender Westys we have owned, and the present GoWesty-sourced 3rd one
is O2 sensor correct.

I would be open to disagreement with my analysis of the cause, because that
would help me learn something. Also, that 2nd van never seemed to suffer any
ill effects from the lack of an operating sensor in the 11 years we owned it;
Does that make (sense or) not?

johnnyjewel
'86 Westy Weekender
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kim Springer" <kimspringer@ASTOUND.NET>
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2011 2:26:53 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: Strange pattern of tach and motor dying(long)

Jiggle the ignition switch around when it will not restart to rule that out,
especially if the die and restart it tied to a bumpy road condition.

I've heard of this "cool down time" sort of thing associated with bad coils
before as well.

Kim

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Max Wellhouse
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 11:53 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Strange pattern of tach and motor dying(long)

Folks:  I have experienced a strange but semi predictable pattern of
engine mis-behaving twice now in the last two weeks and it's time to
find Mr. Wizzard and get some thoughts on its origin.  The van is a
90GL 246k on it.  otor was a Boston Bob rebuild and has maybe 120k on
it.  Compression is down to 110 in one cylinder and tyhe others are
in the 160 range.  I do ohave that funky Haltec ECU system on the
motor, so that could be giving me trouble and I have to use a Bosch
ignitior wired in the system; it came fro ma junkyard like 10 years
ago off an old Rabbit or Sirrocco.

Dead sequence number 1:  Was driving in the rain on the highway and
the tach dropped out and the motor quit for like 2 seconds.  We're
back with minimal speed loss.  About 15 minutes later it repeats that
behavior and we lose a couple mph ands we're back going again.  Then
maybe 15-20 minutes after that it quits and dies.  Five minutes later
I try to start it, no luck, ten no luck, 15 no luck, so I open up the
hatch and start poking around.  The only thing I see is one of the GM
style waterproof connectors with a rubber grommet loose and aI  was
thinking water got in there and shorted something out.  I also saw
some crusty stuff on the internals of the cap and rotor, so I
switched out another used cap and rotor I had with me, but much less
crusty than what was in there. At 30 minutes the engine started right
up and gave no further trouble for a week.  30 min. to dry out the
wiring seemed like a plausible scenario, so I didn't give it much
more thought.  I poked the grommet back in place thinking  I had
solved the issue with either the cap/rotor or the grommet..

Case Sequence #2.Last Thursday night I left for a long drive to
Duluth.  Before I left town, the tach dies along with the motor,and 2
sec. later it returns to life.  About 20 miles out of town it repeats
that same behavior(2 seconds dead and back to life).  About a half an
hour later in the middle of nowhere on Hwy 218 at 1AM, it totally
dies.  Three attempts to start it this time failed,so I took a
nap.  This second round of orneriness was NOT caused by rain or
moisture. At 20 minutes it wouldn't start so I went back in the hatch
and milled around wiggling wires etc.  The grounds by the coil didn't
look corroded, so I was thinking maybe the coil(which wasn't THAT
old) or the Bosch ignitor might be the culprit, but not sure how to
test them.  My Hall sender is maybe 4 or 5 years old too and the
plastic connector doesn't have any cracks in it.  Regardless, it
started up again at the 30 minute mark and hasn't acted up since.

If what I'm describing sounds like Vanagon Syndrome, I would agree
with you, but I'm using the Haltech, not Digifant.  The Haltech has
been repaired once a few years ago, so I'm left wondering if it's a
flaky ground somewhere, or if this unique pattern is the sign of
something getting too hot to function properly and the 30 minutes of
rest gives it time to cool off and function properly.  I drove the
van another 5-600 miles with no further incidents over the next 3
days.  I have a substantial heat sink on the ignitor.  These sorts of
problems seem to not want to get fixed, but maybe this time it will
be the exception.

Thanks in advance


DM&FS