Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 02:18:46 -0500
Reply-To: Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Subject: Re: Copyright Questions: Item in hand,
copy and make similar or same. VLVC
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinSq9ySBBUGXMO5HNsPHbNMSj04nw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have from both ends.
I had someone come after me for my beer tower cooler, claiming "Copyright
Infringement". I did a quick search to verify what I already knew, that I
had been building mine long before his product was launched. And others had
been building theirs long before I started building and selling mine & that
plans had been freely available on-line for at least 2 years. I explained
the rules, we had a few email exchanges & he wandered off. I'm sure he still
believes I stole his idea.
The lessons are simple.
The easiest products to design are products covered by expired patents, you
just need to be careful not to add a feature that someone else patented
later. That's why you do a patent search for anything you create & might
want to sell. And BTW, most of the stuff Harbor Freight sells falls under
this category.
Just because you come up with a great new "gee whiz" idea does not make it
yours. Most ideas are based on or a extension of established technology and
I guarantee that if you thought of it, at least a dozen others have too.
Patents are expensive and it's not worth the cost of filing just for the
status!
Also, the down side of a patent is - because it's a public document you will
unintentionally share your design with the rest of the world. This is
because you must file enough content to show the uniqueness in your design.
And once you file, your competition can download & analyze your design and
develop a very similar product without infringing on your patent.
And what if someone else patents your idea after you have been building your
product? You just need to show that you have been building the design long
before his patent was filed, making his patent worthless.
Thanks, Tom Hargrave
www.stir-plate.com
www.towercooler.com
www.kegkits.com
-----Original Message-----
From: neil n [mailto:musomuso@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 1:42 AM
To: Tom Hargrave
Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
Subject: Re: Copyright Questions: Item in hand, copy and make similar or
same. VLVC
Hey Tom. Great insights. You've obviously BTDT.
yah in my case, it would basically be a "no harm no foul" at some
level. I just wanna save a buck. I may not even need the thing.
(support for my bass trombone says he with a sometimes painful elbow
and hand). We'll see.
Given my business, I'm just sensitive to the issue of "stealing"
someone else's work w/o permission so......
Neil.
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 11:00 PM, Tom Hargrave <thargrav@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> Neil,
>
> Patents are an offensive tool - they give the patent owner the leverage he
> needs to go after someone who has stolen his design or implementation. A
> patent owner is not going to go after someone who copies a tool to
> accomplish a task in his garage.
>
> It's my opinion today that most patents are BS (short for Bull S^%$@)
> patents. Someone will produce a copy of a established idea then will find
a
> almost obscure feature of the design to patent. This gives him the right
to
> apply his patent to his product but in reality it's just for that one
> feature.
>
> So, if you are looking at a product that has a patent applied it's always
> worth doing a patent search on the patent or patents applied. You may be
> surprised at how little of the design they applied to.
>
> For example, the stir plate was patented in 1942 (US Patent 2,350,534) and
> this patent has long since expired. But a newer patent exists (US Patent
> 7075040) for stirring hot plate. But stirring hot plates have been around
> for a long time too!
>
> Read the patent and you would believe they have all aspects of a stir
plate
> covered but then you finally get to the SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION which
> states:
>
> "Embodiments of the present invention provide an improved stirring hot
plate
> that provides an improved visual indicator to the user that the platform
is
> hot-to-the-touch, and that visual indicator is especially effective when
the
> stirring hot plate is not in use.
>
> Additional embodiments provide a stirring hot plate which can rapidly
brake
> the magnets which cause a magnetic stir bar to rotate within a mixture
> container."
>
> In other words, the patent is for a "hot plate" indicator light and a
motor
> that rapidly slows down when you turn the motor off!!!
>
> BTW, this was part of the patent research I did before designing the two
> stir plates I sell. And neither stir plate has a BS patent applied.
>
> Thanks, Tom Hargrave
> www.stir-plate.com
> www.towercooler.com
> www.kegkits.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> neil n
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 11:59 PM
> To: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
> Subject: Copyright Questions: Item in hand, copy and make similar or same.
> VLVC
>
> Hi all.
>
> Hypothetically speaking, this would be a "one off" for me to use at
> work. Did some patent searching online but didn't get any hits.
>
> If one makes an item, that is the same or very similar in function and
> appearance to original design, is this *generally* considered a
> copyright infringement?
>
> Item design appears simple and at most I figure $50 in materials.
> Likely less as some materials are on hand. Item new is $250.
>
> The VLVC: learning a little more about design and fabrication during
> my engine swap has only spurned me on to make this thing!
>
>
> Neil.
>
>
> --
> Neil Nicholson '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco"
>
> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>
>
http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engine
> s
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
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>
>
--
Neil Nicholson '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco"
http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engine
s
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3693 - Release Date: 06/10/11
